Best pedal steel option for a C6 lap player

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 8 May 2011 4:26 pm

I play a Fender Deluxe 8 (low C6) in a band that plays only classic country songs. As I discover my voice on the instrument, I find myself doing lots of behind the bar bends and slants. I'd like to stick with 8 strings in C6, and I wonder would a Fender 400,800, etc. be conducive to what I'm trying to do. If not, what would you recommend? Thanks for your time...

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 8 May 2011 4:37 pm

There is a company called, "Lone Star," if my memory is right, that specializes in 6 and 8 string pedal steels. Try the search function. You mighty get lucky.

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 8 May 2011 5:02 pm

Thanks Edward. LSS is just a couple of hours down the road from me and is definitely a consideration. The reason that I ask about the Fender is because of the ease of changing the copendent (according to previous posts). I think that it's going to take me some time to figure out which strings I want to change, and I'd love to be able to tinker with the changes as I see fit.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 8 May 2011 5:13 pm

Was also told that you really need to be a tinkerer to keep those old Fenders working. That is why I opted for a morer modern design. If you look at the copedasnt section of the forum, you can get a lot of help in choosing a setup. I strongly recommend the Buddy Emmons for C6. Bobby Lee's 8 string universal may fit your needs better, though. It seems to cover the most important aspects of both C6 and E9.

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » 8 May 2011 5:48 pm

Robert
I've been bugging Jim (Flynn of Lone Star Steels) for over a year about putting together an 8 stringer for me. I'm hoping we can come up with a hybrid with his changer om my console-style non-pedal design. I'd probably be smarter just to let him do his thing and produce his standard model because I've seen his 6's and 10's and they're just great. You won't find a better steel in terms of ease of changing the copedent and you won't find a better guy to deal with.

Whatever you eventually decide to do, get in touch with Jim and see what he has to offer.

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 8 May 2011 6:02 pm

Guys, thanks for the input. John, I'm pretty sure that if you and Jim come up with a 8 string, C6 with a couple of simple changes, my search will be over. I would have purchased one of your steels in Dallas if my finances had been a been a bit stronger. I had to fight a serious case of GAS to walk away. Thanks again.

Garry Vanderlinde · Post by **Garry Vanderlinde** » 8 May 2011 8:45 pm

I also like playing C6th steel: pedal and non-pedal.
I love the older Fender Steels and the later 400 and 800 models but the pedal models are clunky and hard to operate. The newer modern steels are like butter in comparison.

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » 9 May 2011 7:26 am

Robert, I hope you'll weaken a little the next time you're in spending distance of us.

Meanwhile, I'll talk to Jim today and see if we can get something started. As I mentioned, ordering one of his standard steels is a seriously good option. I know he's made 8's before and he could probably get one started pretty quickly for you. If we manage to get anywhere on the hybrid model, I'll keep you posted.
One option that we've talked about is a double with a simple E9 copedant on the front neck and a straight non-pedal C6 on the back. Another idea that I've kicked around is a universal 8 string tuning that'll give me a full A6 in the AB pedal position plus the E-lever B6 option and maybe a locking lever that'll put the whole thing in a non-pedal C6 (several strings to pull, but most only a 1/2 step up or down) for straight steel stand-up gigs.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 9 May 2011 9:41 am

If you want to keep that Fender tone, you'll probably want an old Fender PSG and NOT a modern one. Yes, modern steels play like butter compared to the old cable steels, but they sound very different. It's due in large part to the pickups, but also the construction of the body and the cable pull system and how that system makes you play.

Nils Fliegner · Post by **Nils Fliegner** » 9 May 2011 9:52 am

Pros of the Fender 400:
Excellent tone, especially the ones with the "Jazzmaster" pickup, fast 'n' easy set-up and cool looks.

Possible con:
You can only either raise OR lower strings with a single pedal. If you want to raise one string and lower another one at the same time, you would have to press two pedals in unison.

Just my two cents...

Nils Fliegner · Post by **Nils Fliegner** » 9 May 2011 9:55 am

Hey, wait a minute! Why is this at "Steel Without Pedals?

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 9 May 2011 10:18 am

I think you should be looking more at E9 tuning. You could the route of the old 8 string E9 tuning (without the chromatic strings) like Buddy Emmons, Speedy West, Jimmy Day, and Bud Isaacs used. i think it would be more conducive to what you are hinting at doing. The C6 neck with pedals is used differently than the E9 neck--more as a way of getting those "other" chords.

To answer your question, I think the Fenders are cool. If you get one in good shape, they are kind of fun to play. Very heavy, though, which is a big drawback and the pedals can be a little tough. Otherwise, they are fun to play.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 9 May 2011 11:20 am

Moved to Pedal Steel from Steel Without Pedals.

Michael Maddex · Post by **Michael Maddex** » 9 May 2011 12:39 pm

If you want to play the modern way, I suppose that you should get a modern PSG. If you want 'to be able to tinker with the changes as I see fit' as you stated earlier, then I think that the Fender 400 is an excellent choice.

Contrary to what is stated in a previous post, you can indeed raise one string and lower another with one pedal. There are some restrictions including: Each string can have one raise and/or one lower. Each pedal controls two pulls. Most 400s shipped with four pedals. Of course there are work-arounds and all sorts of home-brew stuff, too.

If you are interested, you might want to check out the Fender Steel Forum:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Fender_Steel_Forum/index.php

HTH. Have fun. Just my two cents, YMMV.

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 9 May 2011 2:54 pm

Thanks again for all of your advice. Upon further consideration, I think that I'm probably trying to reinvent the wheel. I start out on lap steel, & then figure out a couple of moves that would be much easier with a pedal or two. So, I get a piece of 50 yr. old technology that allows me to play the licks that I want to right now. In a year or two, I've got some new sounds in my head, but that old guitar just doesn't have the changes that I need, won't tune,parts break, etc. Fast forward 3-4 years and I'm in the market for a quality pedal steel with 3&4. My plan is to string up a lap with that old E9 (thanks Mike) and give that a try to see how that works for me. If I find an old Fender pedal that's reasonable, I'll pick it up. In the meantime I'll probably be here reading every Lone Star Steel and Stage One thread available.

Nils Fliegner · Post by **Nils Fliegner** » 9 May 2011 10:27 pm

Ooops, I made a mistake in my previous post about the Fender 400 and a fellow forumite was so kind to correct it. Here goes:
With the cable pulling system, each pedal can change two strings. That means that with each pedal you can lower two strings, raise two strings, or raise one string and lower the other.
What the cable system will not do (without some "workarounds" or additional hardware added) is do a double-raise or double-lower. That means you can't easily raise a C to C# and also raise the same C to D, or do the same with a lower, such as lower the same string from C to B, and also down to Bb.

Sorry for the earlier misinformation!

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 10 May 2011 5:00 am

RJ

I know what your up against , i went through the same impulse with C6th non-pedal
. The 8 string C6th is very comfortable to play - so what you might consider is a 10 string ( 3 + 4 ) S 10 steel with an 8 string set up on it - it will look and feel like an 8 -- when you have the changes you want -- install only tho’s pedals , when you wish to expand - just add 1 or 2 more string and add to your copedant .

Just a thought -- good luck on your quest
Hick