Best tuning to imitate E9 sounds on Non Pedal

[Gary Reed]

I have a S8 in C6 ( high string E -Low string F )
I not a great player.
What would be the best tuning to imitate E9 Pedal Steel recordings?
( If this is possible )

Thinking about getting a D8

Thanks for your time!

[Bill Brunt]

Forgive me, but I think you will be more greatly rewarded by finding an artist who provides tabs/ mp3s which represent the sound you desire, and focus on learning that, rather than buying a double neck at this time.

Otherwise you will just have two necks, neither of which you can get the steel sound you want from.

Search for some posts by Doug Beaumier here on the forum. I believe this is him here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO2Tf8KLJ14

If that sound is representative of what he teaches, you couldn't go wrong.

If you are a rank beginner like me, and need some very easy tabs and music files to learn from, try a set of lessons called Fun Tabs. They are easy enough even for me to learn from.

Others will have more suggestions. There are several very good players here that can give you a jump-start. Check them out. You will find what you are looking for.

[Mike Neer]

What types of E9 sounds are you looking for? There are simple changes that can be done, like A and B pedals. I'd like to know what you have in mind.

[Gary Reed]

Thanks Bill,
Doug did a nice job there for sure. In C6 too!
I guess it's in the slants.
Thanks for the video lead.

Hi Mike,

Yes - What tuning would be best A B pedals. After watching Doug, I'm beginning to think C6 has possibilities. I guess I want to sound more Country, I seem to be Hawaiian sounding, even in my Born to Lose and stuff like that. I like Buck Owens and Haggard. I guess that was Mooney.

[Bill Brunt]

I think somebody on this forum once said:
When you start learning C6, everything sounds like Hawaiian.

...Until you join a Hawaiian band

C6, A6.

But don't listen to me. Listen to Mr. Neer. there is none better.

Go to his site, buy Skiddle-Dee-Boo, and after you learn it, teach it to me!!

[Tom Wolverton]

I'm thinking why not just get an E9th PSG, like a StageOne? If you want to sound like a PSG, there just ain't nothing like the real thing. But if you are going to stay with non-pedal, I sort of get some of the sounds on E13th, but I don't do that much AB pedal immitation. (it can be done with a quick forward 3-note slant, but takes loads of practise)

[John Billings]

Learn some "behind the bar" bends with you left hand.

[Mike Neer]

In my opinion, straight out the box, the old E9 pedal tuning is best for A-B pedal sounds. The old E9 tuning doesn't have the G# first string, though; E is the first string. It is spelled: E B G# F# D B G# E. You can do this on any E-based tuning with strings tuned E B G# next to each other.

You can do forward slants on any guitar tuned to an E tuning with a B and G# next to each other--this will take you from the I chord to the IV chord. Problem is, the beauty of the pedals is that you can have the 1st string at a constant pitch while the other 2 notes are raised and lowered. You can't do that with slants unless you are willing to change the order of your strings (I've experimented with this a lot, but don't ask).

The way I do it is to use string pulls. I can keep my bar straight and pull strings 2 and 3, leaving string 1 to stay constant. If I have the right gauge, I can do this easily and even have it set up so that by pulling string 2 hard, it will only travel far enough that string 3 will only raise 1/2 step. It took a lot of experimenting to get the gauges right.

If you'd like to hear an example, here's a clip of Bud's Bounce in E9 tuning: Bud's Bounce. It's a little rough, as i had a severe blister on my left hand middle finger at the time.

If you're looking to get some early Ralph Mooney or Tom Brumley type pedal moves, you can do so by moving the bar very quickly up to a pitch and back. You have to be dead accurate. I've done a few adaptations of Tom Brumley tunes like this. Another one that I was preparing a lesson for but haven't finished, was a great waltz by Tom called Waltz of the Roses. I worked hard to get the pedal moves right and it sounds fantastic. That is a reminder to myself to get it done.

[David Ellison]

I would recommend an E13 tuning with a chromatic F# string on top, and a G# as the second string (actually, I don't think my tuning here is really an E13 tuning, more like E6 with a 7th on the bottom).

For one thing, you could get more of the tonality of E9 pedal steel by pulling your C6 tuning up to an E13 (of course, you have to change the string gauges)... it will give you that higher, brighter sound. Also, having the F on the bottom the way you do is useful for swing, but if you want to play country, I think you'd be better off getting rid of it and adding a chromatic string F# on the top. A lot of characteristic E9 pedal steel sounds come from the major scale runs you can do with that string.

So, high string to low, your tuning would be F#, G#, E, C#, B, G#, E, D (the first string is lower in pitch than the second string, but higher than the third string). I have used this tuning, and you can get lots of E9 pedal steel sounds with it... I really think it's your best bet. Using just the high G# and B strings together, you can play almost every lick Tom Brumley did on Together Again (using bar slants) and really make it sound like a pedal steel!

Another way to go would be to add both of the E9 chromatic strings to the tuning and get rid of the low D. Now your tuning would be (high to low) F#, D#, G#, E, C#, B, G#, E. Lots of pedal steel sounding stuff to play with that.

The good thing about using an E13 would be that you would still be able to play all the C6 licks you already know. If you just wanted to add chromatic strings to your C6 tuning, the strings would be D and B (you'd put those on the top, and drop off the two bottom strings you have now, so the lowest string would be a C).

The best (and easiest) way to play E9 pedal steel licks, though, is on a pedal steel.

[Tom Grosz]

Since you are wanting to sound like a pedal steel, are you thinking that you may someday end up sitting at the helm of one?

On my pursuits of making a 6-string lap steel sound like a pedal steel, I eventually decided to just take strings (in order) from a pedal steel setup. For 6 I used (low-to-high) D E F# G# B E. With 8 you could choose between adding the low-B and high-G# or the high G# & D#. Sometimes I tuned D to C# if I wanted a minor triad with a straight bar....
As stated, you can use a combination of behind-the-bar string pulls and slants to get some convincing AB-pedal licks. Both will require plenty of practice .

Using this tuning helped me when I did start playing pedal steel, as I was already intimate with the strings, and how the ABC pedals related to them.
The string gauges I used also lent themselves to easily retuning between A6 and C6.

Experiment to see what works and have fun learning!

[Rich Sullivan]

Here is a link to a page on Buddy Emmons' website which includes tab, a recording, and an interesting description of how he recorded "Makin' Believe" in 1955 while he was waiting for his first pedal steel from Bigsby.

Makin' Believe

He did change the sequence of notes in an A6 tuning, and left one string missing, to be able to achieve the AB pedal sound. But he sure nailed it.

I have experimented with altered note sequences, as Mike mentioned he has done. A relatively easy alteration to try on an E tuning is to raise the middle E up an octave to the same pitch as the first string. (Change the string to a lighter gage first.) Then you can do a forward slant from the I chord to the IV chord with the high tonic note sustaining over the two moving tones. But you now have a "novelty" tuning that is not really as playable without a lot of practice and adjustment.

[Gary Reed]

Mike,
At your site you offer a few tabs and the like. Nice Blog too.
Seven Come Eleven is a real good place for me to start.

Do you explain tunings and string gauges in the lessons/songs?

Is this is the tuning you explained from the post above and use in the songs/tabs you sell?
If is is, could you copy and paste to a reply and give the string gauges?

After watching the video's, I'd like to give this a try.

1. E high String
2. G#
3. B
4. D
5. F#
6. G#
7. B
8. E

Thanks to all that contributed to this thread.
Any and all thoughts are welcome.
This has been great!

[Gary Reed]

Hi Tom:
I doubt if I'll ever get a Pedal Steel. I won't play hard country in bars any longer. Did that for years. I might to Senior Centers and Private Parties. I'd like to play country stuff from Buck Owens and earlier and some Hawaiian.

I like your (low to high) B D E F# G# B E G#. It lines up with the standard E9 Copedent list here.

http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Table ... Tables.htm

I have to spend some time with your E9 setup and Mike's E9.
Yours is standard, but Mike's looks altered. mmmmmmmm
Maybe I'm reading stuff wrong.

Thanks for coming in on this.

[Mike Neer]

.....
Do you explain tunings and string gauges in the lessons/songs?

Is this is the tuning you explained from the post above and use in the songs/tabs you sell?
If is is, could you copy and paste to a reply and give the string gauges?

After watching the video's, I'd like to give this a try.

1. E high String
2. G#
3. B
4. D
5. F#
6. G#
7. B
8. E
...

Gary, this is the tuning that Buddy Emmons and speedy west had on their 8 string pedal steels, of course, with the ability to raise strings 2 and 3. You have strings 2 and 3 out of place above. The spelling, from high to low is: E B G# F# D B G# E.

I don't talk about the tuning or gauges on that particular video, it's just a performance. I have other videos which go into greater depth, especially Buddy's Boogie, which is how I discovered this tuning in the first place. The tuning is pretty straightforward and the tune should shed a lot of light on it. As far as gauges, well, that depends on the scale length of your guitar. I use a long scale, so I have to use lighter gauges in order to pull off the string pulls. A C6 set of Scotty SIT strings with a high E has always worked well for me on shorter scales.

[Gary Reed]

Thanks Mike,
I have a short scale S8.
Any string guage suggestions?

[Mike Neer]

This set of E7 strings will do great. You will tune string 4 up to F# instead of E, which will be no problem.

http://www.juststrings.com/sit-sc-e7th-8.html

[Gary Reed]

That E7 set is very interesting Mike.
I was talking with Herb Remington.
He said I might like a E7 tuning on the outside neck.
I wasn't aware of what we have been discussing, when I talked with Herb.

[John Bechtel]

I'd like to see people getting involved with the C-Diatonic to emulate some pedal changes! It's my favorite non-pedal tuning! Lo - to - Hi: C~E~F~G~A~B~C~E. _ _ A 2-fret forward/slant on strings 2, 4 and 6 is one sample sound of a I-chord to a IV-chord and it's actually easier and more accurate than slanting on three strings next to each other, as you would do with an A or E tuning! Unfortunately, there is very little instructional material available and you're mostly on your own!

[Bill Hatcher]

Leavitt tuning. extend it out past the original 6 to any notes you like. E9 and C6 licks live there! Just have to find them.

http://www.mediafire.com/?59jtbwwdmj4. just click on the download box.

[Ric Nelson]

When Kitty Wells recorded Makin’ Believe on January 15, 1955, Shot Jackson also tinkered with his tuning (E9th) to give the effect, sparingly, of a pedal steel. He said he was pressed into making that sound or something like it since on the previous session, Kitty recorded with Red Foley (September 29, 1954) in Springfield, MO using Red’s band. Of course that included Bud Isaacs and his pedal steel.

Shot was not particularly a big fan of the pedal steel at the time and it would not be until later that year (session with Kitty on December 17, 1955) that he would play a pedal steel. He also commented that “You only need a few pedals, maybe one or two.” On his ShoBud, which is the equivalent of a ShoBud Maverick today, he had three. He played it until he left Kitty 1957 and continued with it while he played with Roy Acuff until 1962. But even with the pedals, he preferred to use the bar for many of his licks. Shot went with a pedal steel on his on his own, according to Johnnie Wright. Johnnie said that "Shot just showed up one day with it."

I do wish I knew what his tuning was on that Makin’ Believe session. If I did know at the time, I have long since forgotten. It very well could have been like or near the one posted that was used by Buddy Emmons when he recorded the song for Jimmy Work, although they sound different.

Ric Nelson

[Chris Scruggs]

More important than the right TUNING for immulating pedal steel is the right SCALE LENGTH. You can make any tuning you are confident in playing sound like E9 pedals if you have either a short enough scale or wide enough string spacing to accommodate for heavy bar slanting or, perhaps, pulling the strings behind the bar. My preference is a 22.5" scale with 5/8" string spacing.

And, naturally, E9 tuning is a good place to start. Try this with your C6 string set your guitar is currently strung with:

E
B
G#
F#
E
D
B
E

Now, go listen to Jerry Byrd's E9 record, Admirable Byrd. This us an excellent starting point.

-Chris Scruggs

[J Fletcher]

Trying to sound like Ralph Mooney without using any pedals would require some pretty advanced technique! That man had pretty busy feet. Happy feet!
If that really is your aim, you need a pedal steel. You could be playing those licks after a few months...Jerry

[Gary Reed]

Hi Jerry:
I don't want to play pedal sounds all the time. Just want it for a change in routine.
Still - I do agree with ya.

Chris:
I'd love to hear Admirable Byrd.
I can only locate LP's
Know of a place to purchase download MP3's or CD?
Thanks for coming in!

[Ron Whitfield]

http://filetram.com/download/megaupload ... e-byrd-zip If this doesn't cut it there are other dloads sites to find for it on google.

He mentions the LP in this fine article/interview http://www.hillbilly-music.com/artists/ ... p?id=10027
But when it came to "teachers", Jerry said "I didn't have a teacher".

[Gary Reed]

Got it Ron! Thank you