Weissenborn style guitar pickup.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 17 Apr 2011 10:28 am

Anyone using a Weissenborn style guitar - Bear Creek, Lazy River, Asher, etc. - with a sound hole pickup, what type do you recommend? I've heard Sunrise is a good choice, though perhaps a bit lower in volume, K & K, Duncan - any solid preference for accurately amplifying the unique sound of these guitars? Just curious...

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Apr 2011 11:02 am

Of the soundhole pickups I've used - Sunrise, Duncan MagMic, Dean Markley Gold and Baggs M1 - the Baggs M1 is my definite favorite. It's lightweight and doesn't block half of the soundhole, and the tone is by far the most 'natural' of the bunch, IMHO.

My favorite is K&K though, but as far as I know they don't offer any soundhole pickups..?

William Craven · Post by **William Craven** » 17 Apr 2011 11:03 am

I used an LR Baggs M1 system with my weiss with fairly decent results. It was the middle of the road answer budget-wise but I've heard nothing but good reviews of the Sunrise

Tom Gray · Post by **Tom Gray** » 17 Apr 2011 1:31 pm

I've tried some of the others but still love the Sunrise. If you go that way, you'll need a preamp. I use an Avalon U5 -- kind of pricey, but the sound is stellar.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 17 Apr 2011 4:32 pm

Thanks for a great start to my post!

Tom: I really want to avoid having a preamp (I have enough other pieces to deal with). Do you find that the volume level of the Sunrise - without a preamp - is just way too low, or just somewhat lower?
Thanks very much.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Apr 2011 5:05 pm

Daniel Morris wrote:I really want to avoid having a preamp (I have enough other pieces to deal with). Do you find that the volume level of the Sunrise - without a preamp - is just way too low, or just somewhat lower?
Thanks very much.

Having a good preamp that matches the impendance of the pickup is not just about the volume, it has an even bigger impact on the sound. So it's not the place to save money, it's a bit like investing in a vintage Dumble amp and then running it through a cheap $50 cabinet..

My issue with the Sunrise was that what I got was the sound of the Sunrise, not the guitar - fine if you run it through a regular guitar amp like Lindley, but not direct through a PA. So I felt I could have used it in just about any guitar and they would all have sounded more or less the same. Plus it's big and heavy, and does dampen the vibrations of the top.
The Baggs picked up much more of the acoustic tone of the instrument, that's what I liked about it.
Again,- doesn't matter much if you run it through a guitar amp, but makes a lot of difference (to me) direct through a PA.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 17 Apr 2011 5:43 pm

Thanks, Steinar. I normally preface any inquiries such as this post with the claim that I'm tech/mech challenged. I was only told briefly that the Sunrise is low output (impedance?) and might need a preamp.
Even if a preamp is good but cheap, I just don't want to deal with another piece, if I can avoid it.
I never go direct through a PA system, so if that's problematic for a Sunrise, it shouldn't affect me. Of course, what I'd want would be the sound of the guitar, so if a Sunrise colors it, that might be an issue more than volume level.
Any other Sunrise users care to chime in on this?

Rob Anderlik · Post by **Rob Anderlik** » 18 Apr 2011 4:12 am

I am a big fan of Sunrise pickups for Weissenborn guitars and have had one in my vintage Style 1 guitar for many years now. A few years ago I pulled out the Sunrise and did the A/B with the Baggs M1 but I didn't hear any huge differences so I stuck with the Sunrise.

Not sure why having an external preamp would be a big deal, but the Sunrise absolutely requires a good preamp. So if your heart is set on avoiding an external preamp maybe the Baggs M1 active pickup would be the best choice for you?

Hope this helps!

Tonu Timm · Post by **Tonu Timm** » 18 Apr 2011 4:37 am

Baggs M1 works excellent for me.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 18 Apr 2011 9:57 am

Thanks a lot for all the fine comments, gents!

Rob: the primary reason I don't want to have a preamp is that I normally play all pedal steel, and I have a good size pedal board, kept on a table to my right, plus a tray for dirt pedals attached to a rear leg, and it's just too much to have yet another piece hooked up. True, if I just brought a Weissenborn and an amp, that wouldn't be a problem. But I don't foresee that being a likely scenario. The fact that you A/B'd the M1 Active and Sunrise, without much difference, tells me the M1 might be the best choice for a pickup sans preamp.

Tom Gray · Post by **Tom Gray** » 18 Apr 2011 3:34 pm

My issue with the Sunrise was that what I got was the sound of the Sunrise, not the guitar - fine if you run it through a regular guitar amp like Lindley, but not direct through a PA. So I felt I could have used it in just about any guitar and they would all have sounded more or less the same.

Actually, I have two David Dart Hawaiian guitars, identical except that one is koa and one is mahogany. I was surprised at how different they sounded with identical Sunrise pickups.

That said, they still sound like Sunrise pickups, but I see that as a good thing. Unlike Steinar, I was never going for an amplified version of the acoustic sound. The guitar, pickup, preamp and amp will all color the sound (and so will a PA). My approach was to view the whole assembly as one big instrument and aim for a pleasing sound.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 18 Apr 2011 4:24 pm

Tom, thanks again - very interesting points.
What differences do you find between mahogany and koa woods?

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 18 Apr 2011 8:52 pm

When you guys talk about the Baggs M1, are you talking about the passive or the active pickup?

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 18 Apr 2011 10:18 pm

Tom Wolverton wrote:When you guys talk about the Baggs M1, are you talking about the passive or the active pickup?

My experience is with the passive, used a Baggs GigPro for preamp.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 19 Apr 2011 4:14 am

Thanks Steinar. As a general comment, I've been really impressed with LR Baggs gear.

Tonu Timm · Post by **Tonu Timm** » 19 Apr 2011 4:29 am

I use active Baggs M1 on weiss, doesn't need preamp.

Mitch Crane · Post by **Mitch Crane** » 19 Apr 2011 5:18 am

Another M1 (active) endorsement...I use the Baggs Venue DI with mine... great sound to my ear.

Tom Gray · Post by **Tom Gray** » 19 Apr 2011 6:16 am

Daniel Morris wrote:Tom, thanks again - very interesting points.
What differences do you find between mahogany and koa woods?

Daniel, hard to describe. In general the koa is harder and brighter. The mahogany is deeper. Both are good.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 19 Apr 2011 7:42 am

I put two pickups on my Superior Weissenborn, A Sunrise (in the sound hole) and a Baggs I-Beam (mounted inside under the bridge). The Sunrise picks up the signal from the strings and the Baggs picks up the vibrations from the body of the guitar.
I run a stereo cable from the jack into a Marshall acoustic amp where I can fine tune the two signals.
Very nice sound.

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