Big Nashville Star and His Steel Player. I Don't Get It

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 30 Mar 2011 12:44 pm

Tommy White regulated to the back ground? If you call a thousand a day "back ground", then I think a bunch of guys would be happy in the back ground. And this is just for one of his road jobs.

Ya gotta love it! And he can do it while sitting down.

Bobbe

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 30 Mar 2011 1:13 pm

Yep - Tommy doesn't need to show off. His playing says and does it all. If I want to watch someone show off then I'll go to the circus and watch the clowns.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 30 Mar 2011 2:02 pm

Do you know the best way to stop a person from learning or buying a steel guitar? Comments like you have been making will do the trick! As far as clowning around goes--I wish I had one-tenth the talent that Joe Wright has--he is one of the greatest. Joe

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 30 Mar 2011 2:38 pm

Bobbe I will agree about the quality of some of the players on this forum and their abilities..Not putting anyone down but there is a lot of playing featured by some who actually think they sound good..Thats Ok but when they comment about others sounding so so they forget that they are also being judged..Between the leg humping and the self aclaimations or feeling better than others I have found there are more quality steel owners than actual quality players. JMHFO

Dan Galysh · Post by **Dan Galysh** » 30 Mar 2011 2:55 pm

I once played a festival show in Vermont where Rusty Young was on the bill with one of the bands. He flew in for the gig and he didn't have his pac-a-seat, so I let him borrow mine. He kicked my seat over when he went in to his steel tilting antics! I got a kick out of it.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 30 Mar 2011 5:31 pm

Wow, this is quite a fascinating thread! All this hoopla over de rigueur steel playing behavior!

John Rickard: excellent paste up of steelers with stage presence!

Bobbe: you certainly have a point about guys that can act up on stage but can't really play.

Chas: I think you nailed it:

We complain when there's no steel guitar, we complain when there is steel guitar, but it doesn't get to play enough or isn't getting enough attention, we complain when there is steel guitar, but it's not the way we would play it or it's getting too much attention because the player is "performing" beyond the minimum needed to play the guitar.

There's room for both the live wires and the straight players. Showmanship isn't new; it's not a substitute for playing ability, but it never was. Just think of how many other instrumentalists over the years had talent and kept an audience entertained. Let's not be so cloistered as to think it's just about steel guitarists. Wasn't Franz Liszt known for his flamboyance?

If you don't feel like rockin' yer steel, well, don't. I don't. But it's not 1957 anymore, either. Must we all play like we're "tribute" steelers - y'know, like tribute bands that completely mimic what's already been done? That may be entertaining to some, but think if, say, Pink Floyd had decided to be a Buddy Holly tribute band. Or if Johnny Cash decided to be an Uncle Dave Macon tribute artist. Or Ralph Mooney as a Sol Hoopii tribute steeler. No originality, nothing fresh. Comprende? There's plenty of space in music for experimenters and conservatives, and it's probably best if we recognize we only hurt ourselves and our instrument if we refuse to acknowledge some who act outside the box. Even Loretta Lynn went along with some younger guys, and she still featured a pedal steel! Would that video and song (PORTLAND) have worked if the steeler were straitjacketed by unwritten rules? Now that was cool!

Charley Adair · Post by **Charley Adair** » 31 Mar 2011 9:33 am

If the steeler is the main star on stage, then let him act however. But if he is backing a star that is paying him, then he should play his best with some emotion, but don't try to take the attention from the star. I feel the same about a bass player or any other band member. Just my opinion. Besides he looks silly to the real players, and even some non real players like me.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 31 Mar 2011 12:10 pm

Perfect reply Charley!

Bobbe

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 31 Mar 2011 12:18 pm

Bulloney
If he is a guy trying to make a living as a steel player backing an artist, he should do whatever the boss says. You do what the job demands. If you don't want to do what the boss asks there will be many more to take your place. This is a business not a game or beauty pageant.

You know that as well as I do, Bobbe.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 31 Mar 2011 12:33 pm

Larry, I agree, but there are a lot of things I don't need to do for a living on steel guitar and just being a clown is one of them I don't have to do. If I had to, I still wouldn't, I appreciate the true art of creating music.

I tried acting in Hollywood, wasn't that much fun.

Your buddy, Bobbe

Kevin Shiflett · Post by **Kevin Shiflett** » 31 Mar 2011 1:29 pm

I don't see any problem with doing crazy stuff on stage if it makes you feel good while doing it. Now if you have some guy telling you that you must act like Jerry Lee Lewis while playing your steel then ya that would be a little lame.

But to be honest I would wear ladies underpants and dance with my hair on fire if it got me a gig playing for a big name in front of 1000's of people.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 31 Mar 2011 1:47 pm

it's like I'm sayin' . . .
. . . don't forget which side yer bread is buttered on

. . . and don't forget who owns the COW.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 31 Mar 2011 1:50 pm

This has hit a nerve with more conservative players, and its plain to see this is not the first player to ruffle the feathers of the flock historically.
On a tangent, but our topic is a guy who rocks his PSG while performing.
I think many are painfully aware that music and show business are hopelessly interlinked even before the advent of motion picture.
Ironic that the first song on MTV was "Video Killed the Radio Star"? I dont think so.
People in the entertainment business knew what they were doing, and it is still simple promotion tactics.
It all comes down to the same old song and dance in the end to the promoters.

I say enjoy it when and while you can, whether you dance on the ceiling while performing or not.
Just enjoy playing (and listening to) music you like any way you like.
Oh, and please feel free to express yourself!

Life is too short to worry about how someone else is enjoying their career.

Clete

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 31 Mar 2011 3:53 pm

I remember how, when T-Bone Walker and Chuck Berry played their guitars behind their heads, it ruined guitar for all the other players. They all had to learn to dance, and chew their guitar strings... and the world almost ended.
Come on, guys.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 31 Mar 2011 9:52 pm

Steel players that are offended by someone using flair and showmanship, are the same players that sit around steel shows for hours listening to 17 different players play "I Love You Because".
Now that's showmanship!

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 31 Mar 2011 10:08 pm

While we're at it, I got this off Facebook.
"A guy calls the musicians' guild to get a quote on a 6 piece band for a wedding (outdoor set, house concert?). The rep says "Off the top of my head, about $2000".He says "WHAT? FOR MUSIC?. "The rep responds " I'll tell you what. Call the plumbers' union & ask for six plumbers to work from 6 to midnight on a Saturday night. Whatever they charge you, we'll work for half."

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 1 Apr 2011 5:23 am

BobbeSeymour wrote: I tried acting in Hollywood, wasn't that much fun.

This pretty much sums it up, Bobbe. It is acting of a sort, and it's connected to the visual. Many backing musicians today need to have the image as well as the talent (yes, often in that order) to get a road gig. If you really want mainstream road work where image is king, you need to do whatever is necessary to facilitate this, whether it be working out to get in shape or spicing up your look in whatever fashion works for the band. My guess is that most guys over 50 don't really want to be backing a young superstar for questionable money anyway, so let the young guys take the grunt work and wear the ripped-up jeans. All the rest can bitch here on the forum about how much better it was when everyone wore the same suit and steel got the respect it deserved, darn it!

Bob Simons · Post by **Bob Simons** » 1 Apr 2011 6:11 am

You guys remind me of the club jazz players here in Kansas City- Fellas who regularly play 4 hours straight of "My Funny Valentine" And "All Of Me" to 20 drunks who'd rather they play more quietly so they can talk to their girlfriends and then they spend every break, cocktail in hand, complaining in a tone of arrogant superiority about the crummy rock and roller's playing to a vast and joyously involved crowd elsewhere! It is unbecoming!

There is a place for traditional country in the minds and hearts of those who treasure and want to preserve the legacy, but every generation is entitled to its own voice, vernacular and style. you can "humbug" all you want to, but musical instruments exist in aid of performing music, and anything that heightens the experience, expresses the intention of the song, and makes the experience more pleasurable and engaging is fine with me! It's show business.

I recently attended a very high quality jam. I love pedal steel, but after two hours of "Panhandle Rag," endless Ray Price shuffles, and the like, even I was bored stiff! Get real!

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 1 Apr 2011 6:16 am

It does get old !

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 1 Apr 2011 6:29 am

I think it all boils down to a generational thing. It all started when these shows got theatrical. Artist's flying in on wires and being flown all over the audience. Smoke, fireworks, lasers, lights, etc. This is obviously what appeals to and sells tickets to that demographic. For the 50 plus crowd (give or take a few years) I/we were perfectly satisfied to watch Conway Twitty do a show with everyone wearing rhinestone suits and doing what they do best. Before CT changed his hairdo he was no showman and barely spoke on stage.
I'm there for the music. Just stand there and do what your famous for. Sing or play. Some go for both. The lights the hoopla etc. I personally don't need to see an artist getting shot out of a cannon at a Gene Watson show!

I'm sure it was the same when they first used drums and electric guitars and rhinestones at the Opry.
Things change and thank God we have a choice to listen and or watch today's artists. Long live Gene Watson!

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 1 Apr 2011 7:03 am

Chris Schlotzhauer wrote:Steel players that are offended by someone using flair and showmanship, are the same players that sit around steel shows for hours listening to 17 different players play "I Love You Because".
Now that's showmanship!

An exception to that rule is Joe Wright--I have seen him at steel guitar shows where he would play PLAY THAT FUNKY MUSIC WHITE BOY. His comment "Now would be a good time for you to go to the restroom".

Joe

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Apr 2011 7:04 am

it all boils down to this . . .

. . . it doesn't MATTER what you think

Aldean and Urban and the new crop of country artists will do just fine without you. I'm just glad that there is a guy sitting there (rockin' or gyratin' or whatever) behind a pedal steel guitar because I love the sound of the instrument IN ANY CONTEXT.

If you want to live with songs and performance standards from the 40's and 50's so be it. Just don't be surprised when you find that 99% of the rest of the fans of country music have moved on to something else. Just saying that new country isn't 'real country' doesn't make it so, whether you like it or not.

Just remember that it's easy to romanticize how great it was way back when for the steel players. They seem to forget how Ray Price replaced the fiddles and steel guitar with strings and how there were periods in the 70s and 80s when you would rarely hear a prominent steel guitar on record.

Country music is not one single thing. It is an amalgam of hillbilly, bluegrass, western swing, pop, rock, jazz, and whatever folks can figure out how to weave in there. Not everyone likes everything but I'm shocked at how many on this forum seem to only like one thing -- old school country. There is more to life (and music) than that.

If all you want to hear is Ray Price from the 60s, that's fine. I love that music too. The CDs are available and you can wear yourself out on them. Even steak gets old if you eat it at every meal. Just realize that as much as Buddy Emmons loves a shuffle, he can turn right around and wail on a blues or jazz tune. But I bet if he had his choice he would not be regurgitating 'A Way to Survive'.

Sorry for the rant . . . I had to.

Bob Simons · Post by **Bob Simons** » 1 Apr 2011 7:06 am

Go Larry!

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 1 Apr 2011 7:17 am

Theresa Galbraith wrote:It does get old !

Who me?

When I play tonights gig (The Road House) I'll be thinking about this topic. Look out Jamestown,I'll be rocking tonight!

Larry- I wish you could be there,bring the Beast.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 1 Apr 2011 7:37 am

There is a place for traditional country in the minds and hearts of those who treasure and want to preserve the legacy, but every generation is entitled to its own voice, vernacular and style. you can "humbug" all you want to, but musical instruments exist in aid of performing music, and anything that heightens the experience, expresses the intention of the song, and makes the experience more pleasurable and engaging is fine with me!

Well then, you probably enjoyed 'American Idol' the other night when they fired up the old grand piano. Is a flaming steel in our future in the name of "entertainment?"