Steel Guitar Pricing

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 26 Mar 2011 7:32 pm

Kent Thompson wrote:
David Griffin wrote:I was told by a couple of players (who by the way are HUGE Buddy fans) that ShoBud is a nice instrument,but because of the materials it was not the best to get started on..

Huh???

Steve Alcott · Post by **Steve Alcott** » 26 Mar 2011 7:47 pm

I suggest the OP try buying any instrument on a one-off, custom made to your exact specs basis. Maybe double bass would be a good place to start. For the sake of comparison, I'll use Williams, Zum, and Franklin, as examples of one or two person manufacturers, although most, if not all builders are small operations. Even with the fanciest lacquer body, ten pedals and ten knee levers, all the bells and whistles you can come up with, you'd be hard-pressed to get any of these guitars into five figures pricewise. From an established luthier specializing in basses, the price starts at around $25-30,000 with at least a year wait. Given the mechanical skill needed to assemble the parts and the artisanship needed to turn the machine into a musical instrument, the pedal steel guitar is a bargain.

David Griffin · Post by **David Griffin** » 26 Mar 2011 7:57 pm

Kent:So,players you know personally won't show you? I don't understand that at all! Did you ASK them to show you & they refused? or they didn't KNOW how a PSG works?

You would not have been "ridiculed"(your word) if you hadn't dissed everyone from builders to players to brand names. A bit of humility goes a long way. And believe me,I'm not ticked off. Just mystified. I wish you well. @RC:Why is the quote box saying I wrote something when you're quoting Kent? It happened earlier on Dickie Whitleys post. I'm not blaming you,I think there must be a technical malfunction.

Kent Thompson · Post by **Kent Thompson** » 26 Mar 2011 8:01 pm

I was fishing around tonight on the web and found a video of how it's made on building a steel. I can tell there is a lot of work that goes into them..

Does anyone here have a diagram on building PSG's?

I am up for the challange..

Jeff Spencer · Post by **Jeff Spencer** » 26 Mar 2011 10:43 pm

Kent, R.J. Gluck has a interactive CD with plans for single 10s and twin necks. "Pedal Steel Design and Construction"

Cannot find a link however
jeff

Jeff Spencer · Post by **Jeff Spencer** » 26 Mar 2011 10:53 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Pedal-Steel-Guita ... 1882731158

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 26 Mar 2011 11:18 pm

Kent,
Despite Olli's uninformed observation, it is possible to make your own pedal steel that holds its tuning.

I made seven steels long before this forum existed, so it was quite a steep learning curve, and gigged them for many years, without any tuning problems.

They were all of simple pull-release changer design, I have put a sketch in this post to show the basic principle.

Take a look at my steel pages, particularly the one called 'earlysteels' this shows photos from the first (primitive) steel to the last one.

http://usera.imagecave.com/steelie/

Each one is a progression from the previous steel.

PM me for dimensions etc.

There's an animation of a pull release system here:

http://steelguitarbuilder.com/forum/vie ... ?f=4&t=508

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 27 Mar 2011 12:05 am

Richard,
I wasn`talking about building one DIY. I`m sure you can do it yourself "cheap" if you don`t count the hours. I just don`t think that you can put a psg on the showroom floor for 800 without making serious sacrifices in quality. I could be wrong, of course....

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 27 Mar 2011 12:08 am

A word of warning regarding the Gluck CD-ROM – that's money straight down the drain.

On Richard Burton's suggestion to build a simple pull-release steel yourself, I'm not so sure it's a good idea. The ability to raise AND lower the same strings is an essential feature, especially the E-strings. My first steel, a 3+1 AWH Viking (like a Maverick but better built), could only raise the E-strings, which got very frustrating very quickly.

Designing and building your own fully functioning all-pull 3+2 changer from scratch would require a big portion of luck to get right on the first try...

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 27 Mar 2011 12:28 am

Per,
Please stop perpetuating the myth that a pull-release changer cannot allow a raise and a lower on the same string.

If you study my sketch you can see that the pull-release system both raises and lowers.

I have recently designed a pull-release system that also allows splits

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Mar 2011 3:35 am

Kent Thompson wrote:
I was also advised not to buy a student model..I would be much better off to get a pro model so I would not have to purchase anything else in the next few years..

and there-in lies the problem, that is not actually a true statement.

Kent, you are either pulling everyone's chain or seriously misinformed. I suspect the latter...

I suspect HOAX here...as stated above, TROLL... I hope I am wrong...

Right now you have nothing, you stated price is a huge issue,you stated you have been following the instrument for years...14 is what you said...

Now you want to build a Pedal Steel, if you could see the drawings ! Yet you have stated you have been to many steel shows...if this was the case the mechanics of the Instrument would not be totally foreign. You don't need to ask anyone how they work, when at the shows you can look at t one, look underneath , take pictures etc...

You do not need a pro model, you do not need to build one, you need to purchase a Student model inside of your cost window and get started., that is, if you are serious about learning to play the Instrument.

Or you can just keep this thread going for another few weeks and it will die on the vine from repetition and Tom Foolery...

Ya see, if you were serious, there is enough quality information being sent your way for you to make a quality decision. All you have to do is accept it..

First you complained about the price, more than you want to spend or can afford..whatever..

Now you want to build one..and exactly when will you finish it ?

And guess what, even after you build one you still have to learn to play it ! By the way, are you going to hand make the components ?

If you are serious and not pulling chains, the best advice that you can be given is to grab a student guitar and start learning.

Inexpensive and you can have one in a matter of days...days...not weeks, not years, not 14 years...days...

Then if you are mechanically minded, you can turn it over , study it and come up with your own design and improvements. You won't need a drawing...

But now you want pro quality as well ! A student guitar is not good enough .

A student guitar still has 3 Pedals, a few knee levers, a piece of wood, 4 legs , 10 strings, a pickup etc..more than you have right now which is nothing...

To Richard and my buddies, I feel you are being sucked in to a big hole...

over and out

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 27 Mar 2011 4:26 am

Sorry Dave, that was more human error than computer glitch. My fat fingers kept doing the wrong place to delete. My deepest apologies sir.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 27 Mar 2011 7:20 am

To Richard and my buddies, I feel you are being sucked in to a big hole...

I agree, Tony. After reading through these posts again, I'm beginning to smell something, so I'm bailing…..

David Griffin · Post by **David Griffin** » 27 Mar 2011 7:50 am

Dickie: No apology necessary,man! I know how you feel.

I'm with Barry on this one. As Kramer said in the abstinence episode on Seinfeld:"I'm out!"

Gary Richardi · Post by **Gary Richardi** » 27 Mar 2011 8:00 am

The Carter Starter is an inexpensive student PSG that was likely designed with your gripe in mind. People love to diss it, and in some cases like its LKL that's deserved, but I found it was a great way to get started. I've noticed that even though they are disrespected, they resell quickly. You can probably pick a used one up for ~$400-600 or less. There are some easy mods that will address its knee lever problems. Once you're ready, sell it to recoup most of your money and get something better. Problem solved.

Also, you must not be much of a Gibson, Taylor, Martin, or American-made Fender fan either. In some cases, Fender sell two pieces o' wood bolted together for more than $3k. Go figure...

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 27 Mar 2011 8:31 am

Right on Tony, well put.

As a confessed "make-a-holic" I can assure you Kent if your time is worth anything at all, making just about anything from scratch is seldom a big money saver....of course that doesn't matter squat if you've a passion (or addiction...) for making stuff....making a pedal steel is GUARANTEED to provide a big distraction and take loads of time from learning to play the damn thing.

I'm in big-time agreement with Tony...14 years of interest in pedal steel, your attitude about making one yourself and your claims of not knowing how they work...just doesn't add up...

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Mar 2011 8:32 am

Kent Thompson wrote:Perhaps we need a mass production dealer who gets and builds their parts in a foreign country where labor is cheaper..If a player wants specific specs then you go to the custom shop,and pay those prices for such..

In my opinion

Single neck price new $800.00
Double neck price new $1000.00

Make it affordable to the mainstream..

That's pretty funny. Can you point to any product of similar complexity, with a total market of less than 5,000 units annually worldwide, that retails in that price range?

Also, a double neck requires at least 50% more in parts and labor. Going from a single to a double for $200 ($100 wholesale) is clearly impossible.

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 27 Mar 2011 9:13 am

Just a few of the expenses for the builder. 2"X4"X 2 feet of 6061 aluminum just for the end plates $169.00. Set of legs $140.00, Twenty Grover tuners $120.00, Aluminum for the keyhead, changer houseing, fingers, shafts, bellcranks, stops, knee levers, bearing journals $175.00 (approx.) Curly Maple from Penn. for body and aprons $110.00 plus $25.00 shipping, Channel for the pedals and pedals themselves $50.00, Two pickups $175.00, Ten coats of piano laquer for finish $10.00, two fretboards $70.00, all stainless screws and hardware $25.00. So far we are at $1069.00 and have not even started on the 45 or 50 hours of machine work, the approx. 8 hours for the finish. the 5 or 6 hours to polish the parts. Oh, and we haven't even got a case yet. No they are not cheap to build. Dont forget the $20,000.00 or so, worth of machinery you need to build a proper guitar. Martin.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Mar 2011 9:22 am

Martin Weenick wrote:Just a few of the expenses for the builder. 2"X4"X 2 feet of 6061 aluminum just for the end plates $169.00. Set of legs $140.00, Twenty Grover tuners $120.00, Aluminum for the keyhead, changer houseing, fingers, shafts, bellcranks, stops, knee levers, bearing journals $175.00 (approx.) Curly Maple from Penn. for body and aprons $110.00 plus $25.00 shipping, Channel for the pedals and pedals themselves $50.00, Two pickups $175.00, Ten coats of piano laquer for finish $10.00, two fretboards $70.00, all stainless screws and hardware $25.00. So far we are at $1069.00 and have not even started on the 45 or 50 hours of machine work, the approx. 8 hours for the finish. the 5 or 6 hours to polish the parts. Oh, and we haven't even got a case yet. No they are not cheap to build. Dont forget the $20,000.00 or so, worth of machinery you need to build a proper guitar. Martin.

He may qualify for free shipping...

Kent Thompson · Post by **Kent Thompson** » 27 Mar 2011 11:35 am

Guys,

I am very serious about learning the PSG..Did not mean to tick anybody off. That was not my intention at all.. I am beginning to believe I have been misinformed by the student model. I do appreciate everybody's input on building the instrument, and why it's priced the way it is.

You guys have been more helpful than some of the guys I've known who have played the PSG..I am really NOT a troll. I was just really misinformed.

I will look into a student model and see about getting started. Again my sincere appologies.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Mar 2011 11:42 am

Kent good for you.

When price is the stated consideration the student model is the proper alternative. Regardless of what folks tell you, you can indeed learn how to play on a solid student guitar. Perhaps you won't play the Grand Old Opry on a student guitar but one never knows...

Nice used student guitars can be had right here on this forum by some very astute , honest people. I seriously doubt that anyo participating member of this forum will steer you wrong or sell you a bum Instrument.

If you are serious, you are in the right place.

best to you

t

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 27 Mar 2011 11:42 am

Good thinkin' Kent! You're welcome here.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 Mar 2011 2:41 pm

If you are truly serious about learning, get a PSG and start!

If a student model is all you can afford, get one.
It sure beats 14 years of wanting to learn.

With proper research you can find an instrument that you can resell at little or no loss, and move up.

If you want to learn to play, don't waste your time building. If you want to build, then enjoy that aspect, but don't expect it to save you money.

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 27 Mar 2011 2:57 pm

To my knowledge no one on this planet has yet found all of the music available from a ten string E9th pedal steel guitar with three floor pedals and four knee levers. Lloyd Green finds new sounds all the time on his 3x4.

It is highly unlikely that beginning players will actually need a more advanced guitar after only two or three years if they have purchased a well made entry level guitar to start with. It is much more likely that they have progressed enough that they feel somewhat justified to spend more and purchase something shiny and easier to customize. Fine, that's human nature and most of us are that way.

By the way, it really isn't feasible to produce any kind of well made PSG for $800 and make a decent profit unless you could sell about 600 of them a year. I've tried.

Just find the best quality instrument that you are willing to pay for and get started playing. Truth be told, you can get a pretty good start on just about anything if you are dedicated to learning. Best of luck!

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Steel Guitar Pricing

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