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Topic: Tuning up for recording session |
Leo Melanson
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 10:25 am |
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I'm a steel rookie (been at it for about 2 years) ... but can make some decent AB pedal licks. My band is recording some originals in the studio and I am seeking advice on how to tune up my steel. I did some rough tracks and my steel sounds out of tune (despite retuning after every take) .. I tuned it straight up. I have played around with the tempered tuning that I read about on the Carter website .. but I found it difficult to manage during gigs. Should I be using a tempered tuning for recording? Any short-cuts or advice .. perhaps that will make me sound more in-tune with the other instruments would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I just stink! 
_________________
Boston area country musician
Mullen G2 player |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 10:47 am
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| Does your steel sound in tune by itself? |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 10:56 am
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If you are multi-tracking, I would insist on being the last instrument to be recorded.
Get a recording of the existing tracks, and with your tuner in-line, tune up to the existing tracks by ear (on your own time), and make a chart of your tuner settings for what sounds in tune to you for each string/pedal/lever change you plan on using on that tune.
Then when you get to the studio, tune up to that chart.
ime, the only tuning method that works in the studio is to tune directly to the existing tracks as best as possible, and forget about any other known tuning method like straight-up or Jeff Newman chart or whatever.
If playing/recording all together, you still need to tune to the band as best as possible, which also may not sync with any known standard tuning method.
Use your tuner and write down what sounds in-tune for future use.
I like a tuner with a needle for this type of stuff (Boss TU_12(H), but I haven't used a Peterson strobe... maybe that is better? |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 11:29 am
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I use the Peterson Strobo Flip sweetener presets with a few mods when tuning up for recording. So definitely not straight up.
Then when actually putting the tracks down I do sort of what what Pete above suggests and move the bar, between frets, different pressures and twisting it as needed to achieve an in tune sound with the steel recorded last. Where the bar has to go varies with different pedal combinations, what strings are picked, etc. It's a mess but with time you will do this wtihout thinking. A little bar vibrato can help you sound in tune also.
Greg |
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 12:42 pm
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| Try tracking a few bars of open E and A with keyboard and/or 6-string. If it doesn't sound in tune (and you're fully depressing the A & B pedals) the guitar is not well tuned. If it sounds good, you need to work on your bar intonation technique. Since we operate in the physical world, intonation can never be perfect. As mentioned, a bit of vibrato can work wonders. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 1:52 pm
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Leo,Make sure that the bass guitar is intonated otherwise it will drag you under like a boat anchor! 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 6:10 pm
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I would just pick a system of tuning and stick to it. (The Newman system seems to be the best way to get started in my experience with students).
Then you need to learn how to play in tune. This involves quite a bit of focused practicing. Training your ear to hear what you need and fine tuning your hands to respond properly. Screwing around with how you tune will most likely not help and very likely just be a distraction from the work you absolutely need to do.
In general I have found it takes about 3 years of serious playing and practicing before steel players can even hear what in tune is. Everybody thinks they can hear what in tune is but,believe me, after a few more years of playing what you actually hear will be very different.
_________________
Bob |
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bill dearmore
From:
Belton,Tx.,USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 6:24 pm
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| I think Bob H. has the best advice. Neuman tuning chart(except the F#'s)...if that sounds good to you do some research on compensators...that will help more. have fun!!! |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 9:04 pm
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I'm struggling right now with this same issue in the studio. My problem is during recording (and I insist on going last) I hear myself intonating correctly or at least comfortably close but during playback it's out, or at least "pitchy" enough to sound bad and dectract from the track. It's not what I thought I heard and played during recording.
I'm going to get myself one of those little digital recorders and start recording myself at practice and gigs. Hope to train my ears and hands and learn where to aim with my ears as much as my hands, if that makes sense.
It always seems to be worse with an acoustic piano in the mix.
Stu, you're right about the bass! Nowhere to hide! Glug, Glug, Glug.... |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 9:41 pm
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| Quote: |
| It always seems to be worse with an acoustic piano in the mix. |
Because the piano is tuned in tempered tuning and our natural inclination is play in just tuning.
Years ago, I had a session where the singer wanted me to play on her record and I learned the parts for the cuts she wanted, but the producer, and recording engineer, wanted his favorite steel player to do the session (who also happens to be one of my friends and is a great player) and he kept trying to sabotage me, in not so subtle ways. On one of the tracks, there was a "whiny" electric piano playing in the octaves above C above middle C, and he put that up prominent, for me to have to play in tune with, which was pretty close to impossible. It was a "loooong" day.
Last edited by chas smith R.I.P. on 9 Mar 2011 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 9:47 pm
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| I have played on sessions where the guitar was not in tune with itself, and the results were painful to listen to later. Reverb tends to cover up mistakes like that, so I've learned to record without it so I can hear any intonation issues before they become permanent. I sometimes drive engineers crazy, but if it takes several takes to get a take that sounds in tune, that is what it takes. The studio is much less forgiving than a live environment from that perspective. |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 9:53 pm
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| Brian McGaughey wrote: |
| ...It always seems to be worse with an acoustic piano in the mix... |
True, the piano is a stretched ET. Its actually out of tune with itself, yet sounds good by itself. Steel doesnt sound quite as sweet in ET as it does in other tunings to many ears out there. Caution, this is a hot topic. 
If you are tuning ET, that may be what sounds out of tune even if it is in tune with the piano.  Try flattening your thirds on strings 3 and 6 a bit for starters. You will need to readjust your pedal and lever tuners slightly. Record more tracks using the adjusted tuning and compare if they sound better.
Clete |
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Jeff Valentine
From:
Colorado Springs, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 11:44 pm
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Like Greg I also use a Peterson sweetened tuning. Depending on how much cabinet drop your guitar has you may have to make some slight adjustments, but not much. That combined with the right vibrato and a good ear should keep it pretty close. Sometimes if tuning is a huge problem on a session it helps to stick to two part harmony on pads. Sometimes we want to fill it up with three notes and it's just too much. That can sometimes help you to avoid doubling too many notes that the guitar/piano are playing. As always, it's a learning process that never stops.
-Jeff |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 7:47 am
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fwiw, I've found typical Tuning Methods will only work if all the other instruments have been recorded "In Tune".
It's just not the case often times.
I personally can't believe what some singer-songwriters will committ to tape for their CD's (they sure love Steel though!).
I use typical tuning standards as a starting point, and earball it as best I can to "tune to the tape".
I really prefer not to have to play between the frets or fight the bar for intonation.
Another point. Don't play Rhythm Steel too much (comp'ing). The more you play, the higher the odds you will single handedly ruin the track (uhh... don't ask me how I know that  ). |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 2:53 pm
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I've been using Jeff's tuning chart for years and never had a problem with any other instruments except a piano, oh, and bagpipes. If I hear a prominant piano in the mix, I'll try to tune as close as possible to it. It has always worked for me.
But, all that being said, you have to play in pitch with the tune. Your bar technique must be spot on. The slightest variation will sound out of tune. I've always found, that, my best recordings were without a piano or bagpipes. ( what a nightmare! ) |
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Leo Melanson
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 4:58 pm
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great suggestions and advice all .. thank you.
_________________
Boston area country musician
Mullen G2 player |
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