Amp's for Hawaiian Steel?

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 18 Jan 2000 1:19 pm

I finally got my Rick with the 1.5" horseshoe pu. Sounds good. However the Fender "Custom" Vibrasonic I use for my PSG is too big and powerfull (and maybe too clean, too), to produce the even silky singing slight distortion I seem to hear on old Hawaiian recordings (like Jerry Byrd).
So, what amps have been used. I see old tube amps are still available at quite acceptable prices (except Fenders).
I heard Jerry Byrd used a Magnatone (but which one/modded or not?) at sometime.
Any suggestions...? Short, what's (was) the "Bakelite-1.5" pu-Rickenbacher" of amps?

Thanks... J-D.[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 18 January 2000 at 01:24 PM.]

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 18 Jan 2000 1:37 pm

What about putting a distortion stomp box (set very low) between the steel and the amp?

This may be a travesty is some people's books , but have you considered this?

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 18 Jan 2000 2:02 pm

Gerald, I have thought about it, and I may even try it someday, but I know it's not going to satify me (even if it sounds good!), because I will always feel that I don't have the real thing (I know myself

.
I got the "real" guitar now, and let me tell you, that when you play on it bulldozers the fragil dream castle of those "it's all in your hands"-sayers, right on the first note.
Anyway, "They" got the sound I like with these guitars and the amps they could get back then. They were not too powerful and they weren't as clean as they're today. They (the amps) where not designed to break up as today's (even tube) amps (an as I'm not looking for today's "dirty" either....). The ol' amps seem to have had a smooth constant even order harmonic (class A and pure class A) distortion all along the whole range of volume. Maybe it was not even desired, but that was the way it was. Looking back (using records) however, I think it sounded better than all the "clean" stuff we get today. So, any of these old amps would do, BUT I think that even back then, "They" must have picked the "better" ones, and as I am too young to remember....

I would like to know which ones they where (Brand, Model, year and maybe special spec's as speakers..) or at least what they were looking for (wattage, speaker and so forth).

... J-D.
[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 18 January 2000 at 02:04 PM.]

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 18 Jan 2000 2:43 pm

From what I've read (in "The Hawaiian Steel Guitar and Its Great Hawaiian Musicians" edited by Lorene Ruymar) Jerry Byrd uses a Fender Twin. He keeps the volume at about 4 on a scale of 1-10, with the reverb set to 4. The treble is turned almost off and the bass is nearly wide open, with final adjustment in tone done on the guitar itself.
In my opinion, nothing beats the sound of a tube amplifier. I use a Fender Pro Junior (15 watts, 10" speaker) and am very happy with it. A Deluxe Reverb or similar amp would be a very good choice as well, in my opinion.

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Brad's Page of Steel:
www.well.com/~wellvis/steel.html
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 18 Jan 2000 4:12 pm

In his early days Jerry used a Volutone amp and later went to the fender twin reverb. I believe the Volutone is in the vctry music HOF in Nashville.

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mikey · Post by **mikey** » 18 Jan 2000 6:33 pm

You can't go wrong w/ a Fender amp...altho lately I've found the 1.5 horseshoe rick has a high output...and I've found my taste is running w/a very clean tone...I've been thinking going Hi-Fi w/ a small rack system and a McIntosh power amp...but I play Hawaiian, not Blues and such,
Aloha,
Mike

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Jan 2000 11:03 pm

Try a Mesa/Boogie. I've always been happy with the sound of non-pedal instruments through a Boogie in the "rhythm" (clean) channel.

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 19 Jan 2000 4:41 am

Fender Bullet Reverb.You can play clean or with tube effect.It is grand.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 19 Jan 2000 5:51 am

Im using a 70's MusicMan combo -- single 12, 30/60 watts (switchable), 2 channels. It's from the incredible mind of Leo Fender, so it is kind of Fenderiffic-sounding, but the key to it is a solid-state pre-amp and a tube (EL34) power amp, as Leo (and others) believed that power amp distortion (and harmonics)is where the tone really comes from.

The clean sounds from this amp are incredible, and as long as you're not looking for heavy-metal grind, you can get a nice edge. When I want more distortion for serious blues or rock, I use a Morley JD-10 pedal, which sort-of simulates the sounds of various amps.

These amps are constantly showing up on the market, and are still affordable. Mine has an effects loop, others have a built-in phaser, there are Twin-like models and amp heads, too.

Another good resource for amp and effect info is www.harmonycentral.com. It's a whole site of user opinions and ratings.

Good luck in your search for the grail.
PJJ

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 19 Jan 2000 1:56 pm

I use a Silvertone (solid state) 2x12 with my lap steels. Really cool sound...but also very clean. I bet an old tube Silvertone 2x12 would sound great, slightly overdriven.

The first amp I ever had was an old Magnatone 1x12. I learned to play electric guitar on it. Distorted nicely and naturally, and it had their signature vibrato effect on-board...no, not tremolo, vibrato. Also had a spring reverb. I wish I still had it. Would have been great to hear a steel through it. Gave it back to the original owner who had been letting me borrow it. I heard the thing finally died and was laid to rest. Too bad. I bet it could have been fixed.

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 19 Jan 2000 4:26 pm

Don't forget the sound you are hearing on those great old recordings is a recorded sound and probably not what it actually sounded like in the room. Think about how vocals sound on older recordings and I think you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about.

If you want to talk travesty, I've been using a Line6 POD lately and like it a lot. This is the "modeling" amp. I use the '52 Fender Deluxe model at low drive settings for a nice tone, and the '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb and '65 Fender Twin Reverb models at low drive
settings as well. These sound way better to
my ears than my Mesa Boogie Mark 1 reissue.

I think for the sound you're looking for, an ancient Fender tweed amp or something similar is your best bet. Don't expect to be able to play it too loud without it breaking up though.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 19 Jan 2000 5:06 pm

I have a 1965 Fender Princeton Reverb that has a very sweet sound. Last year in Dallas, b0b played my Bigsby Reissue through this amp in my hotel room and we were both impressed with the quality of the tone. These amps can be had in the neighborhood of $500, and they are excellent if you don't play onstage. I too just acquired a pre-war Rick and this is indeed the guitar/amp combo. For more power, a Deluxe Reverb of any vintage would be excellent as well.

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members.aol.com/herbs10178/index.html

Chris Lang · Post by **Chris Lang** » 22 Jan 2000 4:50 am

Chris DeBarge · Post by **Chris DeBarge** » 22 Jan 2000 6:24 am

I recently acquired a Peavey Delta Blues, which is 30 watts, 1-15" . Jury is still out on the sound for steel, it's great for guitar. I think a speaker upgrade would help a lot, but they're a great value, with reverb and tremolo. And tubes.

Jay Jessup · Post by **Jay Jessup** » 26 Jan 2000 1:17 pm

I was lucky enough to stumble across a Fender tweed deluxe in the early 80's at about the same time I found a 25" scale frypan and this is a wonderful sounding combination at low volume. I think I paid 150 each for them at the time. I bought the deluxe from(at the time future SRV amp tech) Ceasar Diaz when he was just a repairman in a Bethesda MD music shop.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 14 Feb 2000 6:09 pm

Until I found (since lost)my Ric 12" 15 watt
Prof.Mdl. amp I had searched hi and lo for that sound. My LA 400, 12"Peavy with minimal reverb gave me that sound! Both on my Ric' and Emmons P/P. No other amp has come this close.

Tele · Post by **Tele** » 14 Feb 2000 8:23 pm

Hi Ray

it's good to see you back here.......
Andy

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 15 Feb 2000 5:51 am

I recently bought a Gibson BR9 set with it's matching GA-9 amp. While the guitar does not look like a desirable collectable it sounds very, very good. The amp is single ended pure class A with two 6V6's and a little 10" speaker. No tone control, just volume and two inputs (one low).
Sounds killer! Just that sound. Basically, one sets the "tone" with the volume control.... Oh, and those sweet even order overtones, and then the chimes... !

So, last week I go to a guitar expo in Orlando. Dealers (and wheelers) from all over the Nation. They've gone nuts on the prices..., seems e-bay regulates the prices nowadays

..., One guy from Nashville had a Fender 400 up for $1200 !!!

Anyway, there, lonely on a table sits an old style looking tube amp... an "OAHU" Mdl. 230K. It seems to be new. I mean NEW, not one scratch, not even dust. I play it and it sounds terrific! So, I pick it up for $200.oo, still thinking it's some repro, clone or what ever... (I didn't even know the "original")
Saturday, I bring it over to my "tube guy" and he certifies that it's an original. Also a single ended pure class A with two 6V6's but this time with two half separated preamp channels and tone control. One 12" speaker.
Works great on pedal steel too (hey, if something even gets a pedal steel to sound good....!).
Both amps sound very much different, but still just like what I've heard on the old records

.

I'm enjoying my self quite a bit these days

... J-D.
[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 15 February 2000 at 06:00 AM.]

Tele · Post by **Tele** » 15 Feb 2000 6:25 am

Hi

I think most of the old Fender and Gibson tube amps would sound good with steels. In fact I uesed to play my Fender Custom through either a 1952 Pro with a 15" Jensen or a 1953 Deluxe with a 12" Jensen. They sound awesome but since I got this 1954 SuperAmps with 2x10" Jensen I know what my favourite amp is. But these are getting rarer and it's hard to find them under $2k. The Tweed Champ is a great amp for non-pedal steel, great for recording.
You could find a lot of old tube amps for very reasonable prices if you chose not to buy a Fender. Magnatone, Rickenbacker, Gretsch, Premier and many more made great amps in the 1940-60s and even on eBay you could get them for just a couple of bucks....
I would recommend a late 50s Gibson GA6 "lancer". Actually its the same amp as the expensive, fashionable Fender Tweed Deluxe and I saw them for $250-400 last year.

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spo-dee-o-dee.notrix.de Fender Custom Triple 8
Emmons S-10

Chris Lang · Post by **Chris Lang** » 20 May 2010 11:56 am

Yes, Fender and Gibson are very good for lap steel.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 20 May 2010 2:35 pm

Boy oh boy, this thread is 10 (TEN) years OLD!!

A lot changed since then.
I settled for small vintage amps for Hawaiian and at times even PSG.

We'll check back in 10 years!

... J-D.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 20 May 2010 5:42 pm

Old thread alright. I have two Fender amps, and never use them for steel. Can't stand the scooped mids sound.
My old National blows them away.

Arthur Herrmann · Post by **Arthur Herrmann** » 22 May 2010 5:50 am

I am more of a blues rock player, but I have been salivating over these reproductions of old Valco Supro amps made by a Chicago area guitarist. I bet these would sound great for lapsteel and they are reasonably priced.

http://www.vintage47amps.com/files/

Steve Hamill · Post by **Steve Hamill** » 22 May 2010 6:12 am

I've got some really nice boutique amps that sound glorious with a six string, but just don't quite scratch the aural itch with a lap steel. I came across a near mint Magnatone M10 A and it's all right now.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 22 May 2010 5:37 pm

Although I used to scoff at FX pedals (Scoff-piece o' junk!- scoff), I now consider them to be a worthwhile tool if they are designed well. Nothing beats a good tube amp but to get the real tube tone you do need to crank the amp up.

One pedal that works really well is the Fulltone OCD. The lower gain settings sound good and it is very responsive to your playing technique and the settings on your guitar.

Although not usually associated with Hawaiian music, a Fender 5E3 Tweed Deluxe gets some killer tones (that is what David Lindley used in the 70's with his Ricky Model B for his recordings with Jackson Browne). In the one I built I added a switch which would take it from the 5E3 design that distorts as you crank it up to a cleaner sound more like a Blackface Deluxe. Links to that mod are below.

Well, I'll check back here in 2010...

Steve Ahola

P.S. Here are some links to the mods.

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/ ... y_5e3a.pdf

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/blu ... 3trick.gif

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/blu ... 3modhi.jpg

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Amp's for Hawaiian Steel?

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