Dealers Peddling Steels

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 7 Feb 2000 4:32 am

No Peddlers is becoming a commercial place where too many threads are dealers are selling their guitars.I am tired of listening to their commericals in to many threads.Dealers go to the Buy and Sell.Read our sign No Peddlers.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 7 Feb 2000 8:16 am

Andy, I agree completely. I do have a technique problem I'd like to discuss.

When attempting a forward slant with my BJS bar (available in all sizes, $49.95), I seem to occasionally hook the flange of my Dunlop picks ($3.95 per set of 3) on the string (George L Stainless, $9.95/set, discounts for 6+ sets) above the slant. This happens more frequently on my D-8 Stringmaster (1956, excellent condition with case $800/offer) than it does on either my 1952 Fender T-8 Custom (near mint, sounds killer, $1000 firm) or my pre-war Rick Model B 7-string (to die for, original case, GFAO $700). The sound is more pronounced when played through my Evans amp (30% discount on all new models, call for quotes) than it is on my Peavey Nashville 400 (closeout prices). I have installed the Lemay Mod ($100 kit, $170 installed) in the Nashville, incidentally. Controlling the sound with my Goodrich L-120 pedal ($125, new in box) while sitting on the industry's finest Pack-seat, the Mark IV by Kenn Rollans ($150-$275) really does nothing.

I don't know what to do. I've gone through the Joe Wright "Secrets of the Wright Hand" video ($40.00, have the whole series available now; all Palousek, Bouton, Hilton courses also available) and still have the problem.

I guess I could go on forever, but I really am just seeking help with the problem. Any suggestions?

------------------
members.aol.com/herbs10178/index.html

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner for completely non-commercial purposes on 07 February 2000 at 08:17 AM.][This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 07 February 2000 at 08:23 AM.]

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 7 Feb 2000 9:03 am

After discussion with one of the other list members, I'm reopening this discussion for further feedback. What do the rest of you think? Is Andy right?
Personally I have no problem with discussing specific steel guitar models on this forum (as long as they don't have pedals). I can see where the amount of discussion focused on a specific line of lap steels lately could be interpreted as being commercial in nature. I haven't seen any specific situations where a dealer or manufacturer is listing prices or offering to sell a specific steel.
What do you all think?[This message was edited by Brad Bechtel on 08 February 2000 at 11:26 AM.]

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 8 Feb 2000 8:04 pm

Though I appreciate Andy's point, I haven't found myself put off by the posts of the vendors since they've been informational in nature. I certainly would feel differently if they were using this spot for unsolicited ads or for full-tilt sales pitches. My take on it, though, is that they've tended to post with information that has been sought in existing threads or with questions directly related to players' questions or concerns. They've often been highly informative and, given all that, I'm happy to see 'em stay.

CaseyM · Post by **CaseyM** » 8 Feb 2000 8:41 pm

I always thought "No Peddlers" was a play on words that meant "No Pedal Steelers". hmm. Anyway ... if I and a fellow player were in the forum wondering amongst ourselves about the possible string spacings available on a particular pickup of a particular lap steel model ... I think I would really like the input of the guy who builds 'em. Know what I mean? ESPECIALLY if the guy who builds them says things like, "Hey if you want me to swap this pickup for that one, just send it in and it'll be a freebie ... " Who doesn't want to hear things like that?? I also agree that this isn't the place for manufacturers to make sales pitches. This is a place for players to get information of all kinds. Sometimes the best source of information is the manufacturers themselves and if they can share that information without trying to pitch me into the next latest and greatest model ... then the more the merrier. Just tell me what I want to know and let the product speak for itself.
CaseyM

ps .. I'm still laughing at Herbs reply ... that was GREAT!![This message was edited by CaseyM on 08 February 2000 at 08:41 PM.]

Jim Landers · Post by **Jim Landers** » 8 Feb 2000 9:33 pm

I personally like seeing anything posted about non-pedal steels, regardless who is doing the posting. As Casey M. says,"what's not to like"?

I would like to see more of the guitar makers posting the way Mellobar has been recently. How often do you get a guitar builder asking you how you would like them to guild you a guitar?

In Mellobar's case, without their postings here, I would'nt be aware of their new Super Steel and all the options that are available with it. Because of this I have decided that I can't live without one, so I am saving my pennies to get one. That's good for them, it's good for me, and it's good for steel guitars.

I was under the impression that the forum was here to promote the steel guitar industry, and I was also under the impression that the builders are part of the industry. I guess I'm confused. What was the question again????

Jim

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 9 Feb 2000 4:12 am

I agree with everyone.I just hope the builders will tell the complete story of what is in the market place not just what is in their place.There are some fine steels being built today and they are not all being built by one builder.I respect a dealer who will direct a customer to another builder who might have what he is looking for.Steelers are smart we can tell when a builder is pushing his steel or trying to help a new steeler find a bargan.Builders need Forum members to tell them what we want and expect.We can learn from each other.Everyone should see the new steel guitar builders listed on Brad's Page of steel.He has alot of info. on what is out there.If I had not seen his site I would have never bought my Chandler.You can also learn about the older builders that sat the tone for most of what is being copied today.Brad has listed places where you can find vintage steels like Fender Rickenbacher and National.My goal is to own one of all the great examples of tone that have been built.I have loved the steel since I was eight looking up at Roy Wiggins in his store in Nashville.

With Artful Simplicity,
Andy Alford

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 9 Feb 2000 6:49 am

I agree with Chris, Casey, and Jim. The information from the builders and vendors is more often helpful than not.

MELOBAR GUITARS INC · Post by **MELOBAR GUITARS INC** » 9 Feb 2000 7:19 am

Well as you can imagine, I felt insulted by Andy's post. I feel like the people on this forum are the most fun group of friends I've had because I seldom get to just talk about steels. As I think with all of us here, we don't have a dozen people within our city block who enjoy talking about Resonator and Lap steel guitars.

And it has brought one of the most important assetts into our company that we have ever had, constant direct feedback from players actually using them.
The Supersteel would NEVER have even come to be if it was not for the people on this forum.

Jim has a post on the older model Skreemr Melobars, Is it wrong for me to answer his question?

Arlen Roth just came out with a very good lap steel video, is it wrong for me to tell everybody about it and what it cost?

It is uncomfortable to see Melobars name up so many times, we are a very small company and I hope we can live up to everybodies expectations, I really appreciate the guys getting thier guitars and saying how much they like them, but if that's bothering people who own different brands, are we going to have to have brands just not mentioned at all? That may be the answer here. I'd rather have that then be kicked off the forum and not be able to talk with you guys!

Seriously, if I'm coming across as just wanting to sell and promote my brand then I'm not coming across with what this is all about to me. I have no problem promoting one of Pauls guitars, he's a good freind of mine and has done pickguards on the CC-8 for me. He and I decided to go different directions in our designs and I think Pauls body design is very cool.

Well you guys decide if I should stay on here. I think we should just take a vote and I'll do whatever the forum wants.

Ted Smith
Melobar Guitars Inc.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Feb 2000 8:04 am

Of course you should stay! I'm not a real close reader of the No Peddler threads, but it seems to me that if you're sharing info. that people have requested, that's fine. Answering technical questions about your products is great. Posting prices for your products, or the Arlen video, etc. should be done in Buy & Sell, however, not here.
Oh, yes, and I do hope you'll answer my question about the older model Melobar. I'm lookin' at a used one, so it's clear to everybody that you have no financial stake whatsoever in whether or not I choose to buy it.
IMHO, all's ya need to do is stay cognizant of what's a "commercial message" and try to put that in Buy & Sell. But, for goodness sake, don't go anywhere. We need ya here!
Jim

Mikel Nelson · Post by **Mikel Nelson** » 9 Feb 2000 8:15 am

I feel any information about non-pedal steel is useful...and Ted is one of the better founts of knowledge...please stay!

Jim Landers · Post by **Jim Landers** » 9 Feb 2000 8:27 am

Ted, I already said how I feel, but maybe if I say it again it will count for two votes.....STAY!!!

Jim

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 9 Feb 2000 9:54 am

Ted,
You should stay. Its great how so many perspectives are available.

Builders,students,teachers,active, retired, hobbiest,dealers,collectors,semi pro,curiuos...

All of this together is what makes this a cool place.

Bob

Cliff Swanson · Post by **Cliff Swanson** » 9 Feb 2000 9:55 am

Builders need players, players need builders, and all of us need a place where we can have honest, open dialogue together. Any builder foolish enough to bash another builder's art and craft would most certainly be torched by us hypercritical players, so I'm not too concerned about that. None of us mind having vendors at steel shows so we can talk together and share opinions/ideas. I don't see the Forum as being any different other than the fact that we haven't gotten the "virtual steel guitar" perfected yet for our amusement here

.

MTCW: Everyone welcome.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 9 Feb 2000 10:17 am

I don't feel offended in the least by the way various dealers have presented themselves on the non-pedal forum. Ted, you've shared much valuable info with all of us and I hope you continue to do so. So long as we stay relatively insullated from the various and sundry psychotic rants that occasionally plague other areas of the forum, I'll be happy.

Porter Fawcett · Post by **Porter Fawcett** » 9 Feb 2000 10:21 am

I like the information they post here. Let them stay.

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 9 Feb 2000 11:14 am

I have a couple new lap steel models available. So that I don't offend anyone I won't post any prices or info. You will have to call me. Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works 1-800-749-3363

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Feb 2000 12:16 pm

Ed:
Now, this is the kind of blatant commercialism I do object to, i.e., coming on here under the guise of "not making a commercial announcement" to tell us that you have a commercial announcement to make! Just take a hike over to Buy & Sell and make all the commercials you want to. Just keep this area for noncommercial discussion. (By the way, I think we're all more than familiar with your phone number by now. Maybe it's time to stop posting it in every post telling people to "call you", except in Buy & Sell, where it properly belongs?)

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 9 Feb 2000 1:25 pm

Jim- Sorry I offended you. I post my # for several reasons.At least half the calls I get are merely info seeking and I try to assist them even tho they are not a potential customer. E-Mail is time consuming whereas the phone I can immediately find out info to help someone and they don't have to pay. I have been in this business 30 years and my main goal is to PROMOTE STEEL GUITAR. Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works 1-800-749-EDN3

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 9 Feb 2000 2:30 pm

Since were into blatant self-promotion why don't you guys look over at my Weissonator thread. I'm not sellin' 'em (least I have no plans to) but I do like the attention

)

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 9 Feb 2000 3:00 pm

I have found most of the established dealers and manufacturers to behave quite decently (as opposed to what I have seen in other places).
What I personally do have a problem with is the recent proliferation of self declared "endorsers", pushing (peddling for) some retailer, products, brands or their buddies articles for sale on the Buy & Sell Forum (as well as "downgrades" by some others).
While at times some remarks are sincere and legitimate some are not quite all that objective and as some take most every thing posted by our fellow forumists for bare money, I feel this will over the long run not prove helpful at all to our little comunity.

... J-D.

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 9 Feb 2000 3:07 pm

I'm happy with the way things have been. Please let them stay. I like being able to get the info, exchange ideas and preferences.

Maybe it's possible to just come down on individuals who take it over the line. I really don't think I've seen much of that anyway.

Being able to track the evolution from concept to finished product has been especially interesting regarding the product thrusts Melobar has been taking. I'd like to be able to continue to follow that as well as to be able to ask owners how they like what they're getting, and how it compares to what they're familiar with.

Some sellers are aggressively present. That sometimes bothered me a little a couple of years ago. But then sometimes they were talking about something I'm glad I didn't miss. I've learned to tune out the stuff I don't happen to be interested in, or in worst cases, decide not to deal with that individual.

My opinions. Regards, Bob

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 9 Feb 2000 5:29 pm

I Love Brads Page of Steel.If I had not read his info.on the CHANDLER I would have missed a super lap steel.The forum is a growing place and I hope we can get all the current dealers in the family.There is room for all builders,dealers and players on the forum.Brad thanks for the info. on the new Gretsch lap steel.Brad could you host a night for us with the dealers and builders?We could have a SUPER FORUM where we could learn from the masters.There are some great builders that could answer our questions.We want to learn more about the building process.

g montgomery · Post by **g montgomery** » 9 Feb 2000 5:36 pm

In the second post on this thread, Herb asked if anyone had "any suggestions." Yeah, Herb, Stick ($1995.00) it.

Ingo Mamczak · Post by **Ingo Mamczak** » 9 Feb 2000 7:31 pm

Hello ,
I would just like to say that even though I don't post here much I do read this forum regularly . It is a goldmine of information for me . I appreciate all the posts I read , especially the posts discussing products or prices . Living over here , Ireland , it's like a catch 22 situation . I have to buy and import any steel related item before I can properly see it , and only then decide if it's exactly what I'm looking for . Buy-and-sell isn't really and area for discussions about products and prices and availability . Please don't stop discussing any of this great information on this forum . I for one appreciate it very much .
Thanks ,
Ingo.