Where Does Steel Guitar Go From Here?

[Storm Rosson]

Well put Jerry

[Steinar Gregertsen]

It's not a country instrument, it's a musical instrument.

Amen

[Chris LeDrew]

Bob Hoffnar said it perfectly.

We don't necessarily know who all of today's pioneers are(maybe thirty, forty or fifty years down the road someone will have figured out who some of them were, but it won't be us!), but they are out there, on whatever instrument they have chosen.

Well said, Bob. You have captured the climate of the music world quite well with this statement. There was a time when the cream was on the top; now it's all business and now many of the great players are languishing in obscurity. But as the great poets do, they will be recognized eventually. Scholars will sort it all out in the decades to come.

[Danny Peters]

Most of the CDs I've bought in the past five years have been from the 50s, 60s, or 70s. That's not because I'm living in the past, it's because I don't like much of anything being done these days.

I think too much emphasis is placed on innovation and doing what's not been done before. There are probably a ton of people doing innovative things with drums, guitar, bass, piano, saxophone, accordion, and even vocals. I don't seek that stuff out though, because I'm fairly certain it's going to suck.

Have you ever seen bands that try to avoid playing I-IV-V progressions, or any melody remotely resembling something from the major scale? There are people out their with that sort of mentality, and in general, I usually find their music (and their whole aesthetic) to be lame at best, terrible at worst.

We only get 12 notes, folks, and Charlie Parker already used them all. It's kind of downhill from there, but there's plenty enough to look at on the way down, and I myself happen to think it's quite a lovely ride.

[Dave Mudgett]

My opinion - much of the 'commercial entertainment' world is typically looking for the lowest common denominator. In contrast, the 'artsy arts' world tends to look for the most bleeding-edge innovative ideas. But on the fringes and in between - which I think constitutes a major part of the musical/artistic world but frequently runs under the radar - I think there's a helluva lot of great music being made right now, including by many younger musicians.

Unless I seek out good music, I tend not to hear much of it. If we all just think, "Hey, I'm not gonna bother to look for it, 'cause it's gonna suck.", that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I guess it already has for many, eh?

The other thing - the way the music biz business model is changing these days, serious younger musicians who want to make interesting music that doesn't ride in the 'commercial entertainment' world or 'artsy arts' worlds will need mentoring and support. My sense is that musicians who play guitar, mandolin, banjo, piano and other keyboards, violin, cello, bass, the usual horn or wind instruments, and percussion tend to have a mentoring/support structure to bring younger musicians in the fold. I think steel could use to think about this a lot more.

PS - there are more than 12 notes possible, especially on a steel guitar. I thought David Lindley put it well with comments a few years ago at a show when he discussed "Breaking out of the tyranny of the western 12-tone scale." as he strapped on his electric oud. Don't get me wrong, I like 12-tone melody and harmony, but it's not the only way to go. Much as I love him, Bird did not have the absolute, final word on music. Lots of great music since 1955.

Again, just my take.

[Fred Shannon]

"Where Does Steel Guitar Go From Here?"

It goes where the player takes it. The instrument is very flexible but the player makes the choice as to what's played on it. Please the public and/or please yourself. New music requires new thoughts as to how to approach playing an instrument that is capable of "ANY TYPE MUSIC", your choice. Some of the new folks have some great ideas and seem to be laying down some licks that are grudgingly being accepted by us older folks. I love western/texas swing best of all but I'm certainly not going to close my mind to reality. Saw some great new guys in Phoenix who really hit my hot spot and that from a guy who has been playing steel guitar for over 60 years and is approaching 80 years on this orb. Take it or leave it, the axe works for the player not itself.


phred

[Drew Howard]

sidemen to singer/songwriters

These kinds of gigs and especially sessions keep me busy these days, more than classic country bar gigs or new/young country. Or as John Lang calls them, "eye-poker" bands. I don't have any of those

[David Ellison]

I think most people have the expectation that popular culture (not just music) will continue to change radically every decade as it has in the past. I don't think it will.

Since the industrial revolution, big advances in technology and our standard of living influenced radical trends in culture. Now, however, there are no new major technologies that are influencing our culture (other than the internet, maybe). In all areas of our culture, including music, there haven't been any radical changes in years. I don't think this is a bad thing... it's just the way things are. It's likely to be that way for a very long time. It doesn't mean people aren't going to make good music.

[Ray Harrison]

It goes where the player takes it. The instrument is very flexible but the player makes the choice as to what's played on it.

Phred, Well said.

[Bill Mayville]

That was the closest i have ever heard
musical masturbation.

bill

[Sonny Jenkins]

Zane King started a thread similar to this some months back,,,,I think if any one "musician" would be in that group that had some insight as to where PSG would/could go,,,and what it is capable of, he would certainly be near the top of that group. Can't seem to find the thread that I'm referring to.

[chas smith]

We only get 12 notes, folks, and Charlie Parker already used them all. It's kind of downhill from there,

Once you get past 12 tone scales and 8 tone harmonies, things really open up, but you don't have the "comfort" of tonality to fall back on.

At some point, some Hollywood director is bound to dial up....and ask them to provide large sections of a movie score.

Well, it probably won't be the director, most likely, the composer, who is having to answer to the director, the producers and various other "suits", the music director and is having to work with a budget that's probably 1/3 of what he used to get.

On my last session, at Mutato, when I finished playing on the thing I was hired for, the composer, who was looking for stuff, asked me to put down some "floaty" tracks for a number of cues that would be presented to the producer. If the producer liked what he heard, then I would get some regular employment. If not, I still got payed for the session. This wasn't the first time and like the previous, the producer didn't like it, for what ever reason.

A while back, I ended up on a session with Greg Leisz for an HBO movie and there were a couple tracks where it was just him and me. Great moment, he played the lead line, I played the support and the people in the control room stopped talking and payed attention.

And, on a couple of recent sessions, I was warming up, wanking around on the pedals and the 1st thing out of the producers mouth was, "no Nashville."

[Bob Hoffnar]

I just had a couple sound sculpture type steel things picked up by indie movies.

Here is a short animation I did the music for;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvFQsFt31a0

[Daniel Morris]

Bob Hoffnar spoke very well on the subject.
Mike Perlowin said the same thing I always tell folks: it's an instrument, it can play anything!
If the pedal steel is only a lick machine, it's definitely past its shelf life.
Although my playing on this is fairly conventional (and without rehearsal) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZMUuC-E7zY, a young guy came up to me afterward and said, "Dude! I didn't know a pedal steel could do that!"
Isn't that something we'd hope to hear?
And steel continues to pop up in plenty of different contexts. The Forum is full of steel "outside the box", including Forumites like Mike P., Chas S., Susan A., Bob H. and others. If you stay in one place too long, you get stale. If Hank Williams had simply longed for the "good ol' days" of Uncle Dave Macon, and tried to do only his style (or started an Uncle Dave Macon tribute band!) he wouldn't have found his voice.
Growth or death.

[Drew Howard]

Indeed, pedal-steel is an instrument, albeit a pigeon-holed one in the minds of many. However, one that everyone most certainly loves. More and more at sessions I get asked to make bottleneck guitar noises or "play something that doesn't sound like steel guitar". You're paying? Why SHORE! Just don't pull that on Lloyd Green.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4WexGUikq8

Fast forward to 6:28.

[chas smith]

Good interview and it doesn't surprise me that you have Lloyd Green on a session, the producer doesn't know, or probably doesn't care, who he is and asks him to "play in a way that's not normally played on the steel guitar." Because the "traditional" sound has become so codified, there seems to be an aversion to it. I recently had a session, and one of the cuts was just begging for a pedal squeeze at the end, so I played it and said, sorry, I just couldn't resist. They all laughed, and it won't be in the final mix.

[Bob Hoffnar]

One of the main ways to keep your job when playing in a non country situation is to stay aware that every time you bend or slide a note you draw attention to yourself. A bent or slid note goes right to the surface of the music. Therefore if you are playing a support role be careful about squeezing into chords. Think of those annoying electric bass players that can't help "popping" on the high strings. They can do it and they like to do it but it rarely works in most musical contexts.

[Daniel Morris]

Fine observations on bends/slides, Chas and Bob!
I did a little recording for some rather noisy rockers last year. The guitarist/producer asked me to play just a few notes on a few pieces, and he was happy with them (I ended up sitting in with his band, and played more notes, and noise). I mentioned that in one song I used a bend, and asked if it was appropriate for what he wanted. He said, yea, it was great, it gave a hint as to what instrument was being used. So, sometimes less is great, but both of you gentlemen are on-the-money that in many contexts, the typical bends or slides are simply not what the (paying) customer wants. But sometimes it works, and works well.
Like some of the guys at the guitar forums realize, it ain't the pedals, amps, guitars you use - it's your hands, head and heart. And sometimes others agree, sometimes not.

[Pete Burak]

"Where Does Steel Guitar Go From Here?"
I'd like to see a trend towards Steel players leading and fronting their own bands... kinda like Robert Randolph or Jr. Brown fronts thier own band.
Another thought... I'd like to see a trend towards Steel Players CD's tipping the scales in favor of Original Compositions, and a move away from Steel Guitar versions of Standards/Classics/etc...
Not that there's anything wrong with playing/recording your favorite songs... just a trend towards less Covers and more Originals in general.

[Scott Henderson]

The question isn't where steel guitar is headed. The question i where the steel players let it go....I agree with all who call it a "musical instrument"

Music...12 notes and a million ideas to choose from.....What's yours?

[Dave Little]

The question is where the steel players let it go

The anwser is:
10 to 15 years from now. (When The old old guard is dead and the old guard doesn't matter any more)