Weird Rickenbacher with a built in amp in a case

Andre Nizzari · Post by **Andre Nizzari** » 11 Jan 2011 3:08 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rare-SELMER ... 807wt_1141

Check out the bridge. I never seen one like this. Anyone know about these Ricks? Rick?

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 11 Jan 2011 7:27 am

Selmer was a British company that made amps. They were particularly popular during the early years of the Beatles and the Fab 4 themselves used them back then, before they favoured VOX.

The guitar itself is a legitmate Ric. It looks to me like they were made to go together....

The price is about $2k too high IMO.

Richard Shatz · Post by **Richard Shatz** » 11 Jan 2011 10:22 am

It's not a lap steel.
It looks like a Model B Spanish.

Julian Goldwhite · Post by **Julian Goldwhite** » 11 Jan 2011 11:03 am

Richard would be right, it's the much less common bakelite roundneck Rickenbacher guitar. Considered by some to be the legitimate first commercially available solidbody electric guitar. 2k with the amp in case is probably about correct market price...

All the best,

Julian

Peter Huggins · Post by **Peter Huggins** » 11 Jan 2011 12:01 pm

This guitar and amp were up on ebay a month ago and I posted about them then. Expensive ! Rickenbacker made the guitar parts and Selmer made the amp / case. Premiervox (I think) was the name used by another distributor (I presume Basil will correct me if I am wrong about that). It's a really interesting early electric guitar and amp, but again: Expensive! Grin.

David Eastwood · Post by **David Eastwood** » 11 Jan 2011 5:21 pm

And here's Ry Cooder playing one, as only he can:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdcfrCRC ... r_embedded

John Ed Kelly · Post by **John Ed Kelly** » 11 Jan 2011 8:41 pm

How about those tubes - almost flush with the red lining. A potential fire hazard perhaps?

A good collectors' item but overpriced by about three grand I'd say, for a standard guitar, albeit with a unique amp/speaker combination.

John Ed Kelly · Post by **John Ed Kelly** » 11 Jan 2011 8:42 pm

How about those tubes - almost flush with the red lining. A potential fire hazard perhaps?

A good collectors' item but overpriced by about three grand I'd say, for a standard guitar, albeit with a unique amp/speaker combination.

Robbie Lee · Post by **Robbie Lee** » 14 Jan 2011 1:23 am

The roundneck Spanish bakelite guitars are not only historically important (first commercially built solidbody electric "spanish" guitars) but they also sound amazing, and like nothing else on earth. They got it right the first time, sound-wise. The weight, the short scale, bakelite frets, and having the magnets get in the way of muting, these are the things that prevented them from great success.

Pricing these is not a science. There are not many of them out there, and those of us in the cult, well, we get it.

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 14 Jan 2011 7:24 am

I agree there is a broader tolerance in the prices for more rare items -- but there is still a threshold, and the listing in question (as well as one recently listed on ebay for a similar Spanish electric) far exceeds this threshold.

Needless to say of course they rarely sell for the bloated asking price.

IMO asking too much for an instrument contributes to the erosion of the culture we have here. It's the "Emperor's New Clothes" effect and it ruins the process for the rest of us. Sellers need to take responsibility for how they represent their instrument and that includes pricing it responsibly and realistically. Otherwise you're basically grifting.

This brings to mind the individual on ebay who tried to sell a mid-fifties Ric and amp combo for $10k not two months back.

Robbie Lee · Post by **Robbie Lee** » 14 Jan 2011 9:11 am

Ah, well first off you'll notice that I didn't defend the seller's price in my last message. Yes there is a threshold, but I think this listing is merely too high, as opposed to offensive, bloated, and an erosion of culture. Yep, that does happen sometimes, everyday even. This guy just used a ₤ sign when he should been thinking that number in $ -- if we're talking about retail. And they do sell for that price at retail. And the Selmer WITH the case is rarer than most. I know of three in the world, and I follow these.

The Emperor's New Clothes are a double edged sword. Everybody wants prices to be what they once were. It's not just the market that goes up and down, but also peoples tastes, and History's understanding of what's important and what isn't. There are instruments that were pawnshop junk 10 years ago that increased in value at a much different rate than the market as a whole... like the oft discussed Magnatones, for better or for worse. I don't like it when people ask stupid prices for guitars, and I also don't like it when naysayers come along and say "oh that's only worth blah [1/3 of its real value]". But it's all a friendly game really... I hope!

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 14 Jan 2011 9:32 am

I concur. Well put.

A spanish electric in great condish sold last year for about $1500. I really wish I had the dinero at the time because I would love one, providing the frets are not worn down and all things being equal.

As an addendum to what you've expressed here, I would add that I have noticed small trends as well --bubbles-- periods of time (perhaps less than a few months) during which a particular instrument will fetch more than it's actually worth and people scramble for the item. Then, later, the dust settles and the items no longer fetch the same prices.

There was a period last year during which SilverTones of various quality were flying through at $500 a pop. Not seriously bloated but still too high. It was like a little feeding frenzy. Eventually the prices settled back down again. I was like what's with the SilverTone fever all of a sudden? ...Lately you can pick one up for $150-$350 range which is more realistic (speaking broadly).

Robbie Lee · Post by **Robbie Lee** » 14 Jan 2011 9:48 am

We are not rational, us who love music and instruments! On some of the forums with, er, people who are interested in more conventional instruments, they always want to establish what THE ONE REAL PRICE is. And yeah, sometimes things get strange, like with the Silvertones. To keep going with silly metaphors,even a psychosomatic illness has real symptoms. If it costs $500 for that Silvertone, well real money is still real money. I've noticed the kind of bubble you're talking about with the Silvertone 1446 "Chris Isaak" guitar. They were an $800 guitar or less not too long ago, but all of a sudden dealers are asking $1800, which makes individuals want $1500 for theirs too. I guess in our capitalist society everything should self-correct somehow?

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 14 Jan 2011 9:56 am

Robbie Lee wrote: I guess in our capitalist society everything should self-correct somehow?

Indeed, what the market shall bare! (or bear...or bull) LOL!

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 14 Jan 2011 11:03 am

Peter Huggins wrote:This guitar and amp were up on ebay a month ago and I posted about them then. Expensive ! Rickenbacker made the guitar parts and Selmer made the amp / case. Premiervox (I think) was the name used by another distributor (I presume Basil will correct me if I am wrong about that). It's a really interesting early electric guitar and amp, but again: Expensive! Grin.

Why should I correct you, you're right on the button my friend..

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=197399

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=191089

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1666016

The Premiervox AND the Selmer were both assembled by the Selmer company and are "pre-war" (UK terminology)
The Selmer model was the "utilitarian" Basic model and the Premiervox with the Grampian Amplifier was the more desirable "up Market" one.

Also both models were "Hard-wired" i.e. no jack socket on the guitar. This auction one has been modified and is no longer original.
Also I think the seller is living in "Cloud Cuckoo Land"
Price-wise:- No more than £1,200 has EVER been paid in the UK for the most PRISTINE of examples. The auction one is worth 20% less than that in my opinion.

I'm a little puzzled as to the guitar's provenance. (The single knob looks incorrect) The Premiervox Electric Spanish Guitar came as a set with the Amplifier built-into the case and it had volume and tone knobs on the guitar like this one of mine:-

The neck SHOULD be held in position by two chrome head screws

Also the guitar was 'Hard-Wired' i.e. no jack socket.

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 14 Jan 2011 11:48 am

Wow, Basil! I want one of those things so bad.... but not as much interested in the case and hard wiring. I want one for gigging.

So are we to understand that these are still essentially Rics despite the name?

Robbie Lee · Post by **Robbie Lee** » 14 Jan 2011 11:53 am

I'll admit that I have one of these Selmer branded Ricks myself. Best I can tell, the parts are all made by Rickenbacher, and they shipped them over unassembled, and they were finished in England. For instance, the horseshoe is definite the same as the normal Rick, but the coil looks a little bit different... I think they may have been wound by Selmer themselves, or somebody there. Also the bakelite itself has a slightly rougher, cruder quality to it. And they seem to have put the knob and jack wherever they felt like. So yeah, my best guess is that all the parts were sent over (probably when sales in the US didn't meet expectations, and they thought they'd unload them as steels, with nut raisers) and the finishing touches were put on overseas. Here's another:

http://www.musurgia.com/products.asp?Pr ... 6861142011

If anyone's going to Deke Dickerson's guitar geek festival tomorrow, I'll have my Selmer there, by chance, probably on display for fun.

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 14 Jan 2011 12:16 pm

VERY cool. In your experience does the difference in winding equate a difference in sound?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 14 Jan 2011 7:01 pm

I'm not so sure the experts are right about the pickup windings. I think the complete assembly is Rickenbacker. I have access to the three neck Abbott that Roland Peachey had made, It had Rickenbacker pickups purchased from Selmer, the pickups measure (And SOUND)the same as a normal model B.
It's a little difficult to be completely accurate, as the Abbott guitar has a 30" scale length.

I think we need Rick Aiello to come in here with his superb knowledge of Horse-shoes..