What Was Grandpa Thinking? - Unlocking His Tuning Arrngmnt!

John Sniatecki · From: Gainesville, GA USA

So as I discover this instrument its been kind of cool to tune her up (in an E9 fashion) and determine what the pedals and KLs did as they were set up last by my late grandfather.

As a kid watching him play, it was always a mystery to me how he knew when, exactly, to do all these things - the pedals and levers.

As I deciphered his tuning arrangement today, it made sense to me musically (I know the rudiments) and saw alot of the tones of an E Major scale (obviously) with the dominant 7th thrown in (D) and all the other modes I guess that make the minors, etc. Kind of cool, but how in the world do you memorize all that stuff? I hope lessons and study will reveal it all!!

Anyway, I wanted the forum's feedback on Granpa's tuning arrangement. Forgive me if I get the format wrong:

----A----B---C----LKL--LKR-----RKL----RKR
F#-----------------------G
Eb
G#-------A
E-------------F#---F------------D#
B---C#-------C#
G#-------A---------------G
F#
E-------------------F------------D#
D--------------------------------------D#?
B---C#

I guess that makes sense??? I really thought the LKR was nifty in that one pitch went up and the other down?? Is that normal? This to get a minor sound with the flat 3rd?

Some observations about the status of the mechanics:

Pedal A - Both C#'s are flat upon pressing the pedal, however they are in the same pitch. I presume I need to increase the travel on the pedal?

Pedal B - The release on the 3rd string is SLOW and sounds terrible. I presume some WD-40 will loosen things up? It seems to be sticking up under the fretboard and not at the pedal. The strings end on the proper pitch together thankfully.

Pedal C - Both are flat, similar to Pedal A, however they remain harmonious in their flatness upon pressing the pedal. Again, increase the travel?

LKL - Same "both flat" problem as Pedals A+C.

LKR - The G's are flat and actually "cross" each other. Yikes. I have no idea how I'll fix this.

RKL - This one works just fine!

RKR - It seems that this should RAISE the pitch of the 9th string (bass D) a half step to D# but nothing happens. The mechanics move and the lever is pushed out under this string but nothing happens to the pitch of the string. Dead strings maybe?

Again, sorry to be such a burden, but this was really cool digging into my grandfather's past. Any insights from his tuning arrangement? Pretty standard?

He played mostly old country (Jones, Cline, etc).

Thanks for any help on my pedal/lever problems!!

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Hi John,
I hope my grandkids will have fun unlocking a similar puzzle one day in the far future.

There ought to be lots of folks to chime in on the details.
I am a newcomer to pedal steel, so I will defer to others' expert opinions except for a few comments:

Looks like a fairly standard setup.

I would avoid WD40 at all costs. It turns to varnish and makes things worse.

Close up photos of the changer and the undercarriage are essential to getting good answers.

Also the brand name of the steel is critical, as different makes have widely differing mechanics.

Enjoy. I'm sure your Grandpa would be happy that you are. I know I would be.

Happy New Year.
-Paul

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

John, Paul is right about the W-D-40. NEVER,NEVER,NEVER, let it touch your guitar. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC !

John Sniatecki · From: Gainesville, GA USA

Its an Emmons Lashley Lagrande II single neck.

I will NOT use WD40 Smile

My wife has our camera with her, so I'll be sure to post pics tomorrow.

Lots of springs and levers, etc underneath.

I guess its a push-pull???

Bobby Snell · From: Austin, Texas

Welcome to the forum, John.

It's entirely possible that a new set of strings and some twists of the nylon tuning stops will be all you need to have most of the tuning problems fixed. However, you do have a nice instrument and it's usually well worth getting a qualified tech to go over it.

The RKR probably is designed to lower the D to C# on that. Often, that same lever would lower 2d string to D/C# too.

A Legrande has an all-pull changer.

Good luck and have a great time!

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

John,
I would wager that the LKR actually lowered 6 from G# to F# and raised 1 from F# to G or G#. That is a 'combined' change that some players prefer on separate levers. Combining them gives you both functions (G# to F# on 6 is a Buddy Emmons change from WAAAAY BACK and F# to G or F# to G# on the 1st string is also commonly found) on one lever.

Also the RKR should lower 9 from D to C# and usually lowers the 2nd from D# to D and sometimes all the way down to C# with a 'feel stop' that gives you the D. The feel stop is accomplished by timing the 9th string pull to start when the 2nd is lowered to D.

And, as mentioned, all LeGrande model Emmons guitars are all pull changers. Push=pull guitars do not have nylon tuning nuts.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

John Sniatecki · From: Gainesville, GA USA

Thanks for the help!!

I'm heading to the music store for new strings for my Bass today, so I had planned on picking up some strings for the steel as well.

It would be GREAT if new strings fixed my issues.

Still, though, I have my doubts about the slow releasing Pedal B...it definitely "sticks" on the way back...what do you all use for lubricant on the mechanisms?

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Hi, John, Larry's post is spot on about what I would expect the setup to have been, although some guys do prefer the G notes over G# and F#, yes, for minors with the no pedals chords but probably more for seventh chords with pedals down. I prefer the G# and F# changes myself, two of my faves.
The sticking B pedal may well be a hitch in the mechanism, rods or pulling finger binding somewhere, ball end stuck in the changer... sometimes a good look around following the parts on that pull will make it obvious. Hopefully you can bring it by and we can take a close look and sort it out.
On the new strings, without knowing exactly what gauge your grandfather used on there last, you may find that some strings work perfectly when changed and others pull slightly further or less far, and need some small adjustments to tuning or pedal throw. Take it a bit at a time and see what effect each adjustment has. If you have the Winnie Winston book, there's great advice in there on all-pull mechanics.

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