Need help on a Dilemma, Carter D-10 Staggered Knee Levers

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Ok, here is my dilemma. I can only use my Left leg, for the knee levers. My Right leg is ok to use for the volume pedal, but that's it.

#1. If using only my Left side knees, that means that each of the changes that are now on the Right knee levers, will have to come over to the Left Side.

#2. If at all possible, (at least at this time) I don't want to lose any of those changes. I've already removed Both of the Right side knee levers. It looks as if I can place two staggered on my left knee, a little closer together, setting in deeper. That way I can use them without the inside levers being affected, until needed.

#3. The Real Important question is: First, which of the changes should I put on which of those Two Levers, so I can still use the other changes that more or less (can) go along with them?

#4. I'd also appreciate seeing pictures of other's Staggered Knee Levers (on a Carter). Hopefully, someone here will have (5) knees on the left Knee, that I can get an idea of exactly where to mount them.

#5. That would give me Two Inside, Two Outside, and One Verticle.

#6. It looks as if I might be able to use both of the Right side Levers, for what I need. Yes/No?

Thanks, for any beneficial suggestions. Hopefully from experienced (in this area) players....... Don

[Earnest Bovine]

Can you use your right foot on the pedals?

[David Mason]

The left knees use the longest rods, so you're going to need some new longer ones. Concurrent with your search for the right way to do the copedant, you'll probably want to contact Al Brisco, who has the Carter parts inventory:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=179134
(Scroll down a bit)

[richard burton]

It's a D10, so there's not a lot of room under there, but if you could rig up a forward lever, that would give you six levers (if you have two LKL's, two LKR's, and a vertical)

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Hi Earnest,

Yes! I can't use my Right leg for anything other than the volume pedal. A medical problem is preventing that, at this time.
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Hi David,

Yes, I've purchased from AL and from Ann, when recently rebuilding both of my D-10 Carters. A 2004 and a 2005. Longer rods are no problem, I've got extra Cross Shafts, and plenty of new Pull Bars, and pull Barrels of each type available. I've got the ones with the set screws, and the ones the pull rods hook over. So I can just about move my cross shafts for the knees anywhere they need to be.
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Hi Richard,

It will probably be pretty well filled up with just the (5) levers on that Left Leg. But something to think about.
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Since I've never used staggered levers before, (never had the need to) a Picture would probably be worth tons of help, if anyone has any?

I'm not one for being sentimental about any steel, (other than my D-10 GES)... So, I have plenty of parts. Both of these Carter steels are in AS NEW Condition. Both Changers have been reconditioned with new parts totally on one, and new axles, and stripped completely down for cleaning and reconditioning. Most caused from sitting idle, and the lube had turned to crust. Sitting idle is NOT good on a steel. They need to be played.....

[Bill OConnor]

Get in touch with GFI GUITARS Gene Fields sat a guitar up for a guy to use pedals right arm between them

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Hi Bill, and Thanks for the input, but that's not what I'm asking help in. I now have what I need, I'm asking which of the modern changes should be on which of the two staggered knee levers for the best overall usage of them.

You see, I'm not exactly up to date on using any of the new/er changes. Back in my days of playing, we were all using the following changes.

Strings 1 & 7 Raising to G
Strings 3 & 6 Raising to A
Strings 4 & 8 Raising to F
Strings 5 & 10 Raising to C#
String 2 Lowering to D/C# with a half Stop
String 9 Lowering to Db
Strings 4 & 8 Lowering to Eb

And, the above is about it. Since returning after retirement, I'd like to have all of the modern day changes (that's being used) with the 8 pedals & 5 knees, that come more or less standard now, but with using ONLY my (one) LEFT Leg for the knee lever changes.

I hope that helps to clarify things a bit better. PS: Hopefully, having to use (only) my Left Leg, for changes won't be a forever thing, but for right now it is.

Yes, I can play using only two levers and three pedals (E9) if I have to, but I'd much rather start getting into the (new to me) changes, that (by many standards) are now old hat already, speaking of the Franklin changes, etc. But they're still very new to me, and a lot (for me) to work into things.

That's the reason for the wanting to know which pulls would be better off where, etc.

Guess you can tell I'm no longer a young man..

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Hi Georg,

Now that is the information I'm needing. The What Works, with What... For the best results!

I guess I should have also mentioned, that I use a standard Emmons Setup. E's lowering on LKR and Raising on LKL.

My D-10 Setup on the E9 is standard as in:

LKL Raises E's 1/2
LKR Lowers E's 1/2
LKV Lowers B's 1/2
RKL Raises Top F# to G# & Lowers 6th String G# to F#
RKR Lowers 2nd to D/C# with a Half Stop from D to C#.

And yes, the 6th string Lower to F# (when used in combination with the B Pedal) Splits to a G note.

There you go. A pretty basic setup for many, but a few moves I've not used previously. Notably the B Lowers, and the 6 string G# to F# Lower. The only other one is the 1st string F# to G#. I was only use to raising both F#'s to a G note.

Lots of good old Hag licks on that G note raise, with the 1, 4, & 5, strings.

Thanks again, and I'm open to any and all other considerations. I'm not really looking for the (what I call) gimmick changes, that only get used every now and then, type of deal. But! If I have enough room for them, who knows? Us old/er folks like experimenting too, at least at times.....

Again, many thanks from those who've replied. Keep them coming if you would. Plus, I'd still like to have a look at other's Staggered Levers, if at all possible........

[David Mason]

I did a google search for "crawford cluster picture" and got this:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... a1fb6e6599

I changed it to "crawford cluster pictures" and got this (scroll down a bit too):

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/005371.html

Keep lookin'.... I always though that name referred to a separate set of levers for C6th, but not according to the second thread?

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Hi David, Thanks a ton! Just what I needed to see. Also, lots of good changes mentioned in the other threads too.

Thanks again, it's much appreciated.

PS: Jimmy Crawford, was a personal friend, and he sure is missed. Wow! The memories after seeing Winnie's reply.

Thanks again

[John McClung]

Don, I have 5 E9 knee levers on my left knee, including 2 staggered LKL's, a Left Knee Forward, a vertical, and a LKR. Here's my copedent:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

IMHO, you can use either staggered lever, but it would be really difficult to use them together. On my setup, I have them carefully spaced so the front LKL when full engaged still doesn't engage the rear LKL.

That being the case, you're stuck with just one knee lever used at a time if you have none on the right knee. It's not the end of the world, but KL combo's just won't work well, or at all, with a big left knee cluster.

I also have a LKForward, and the pressure required to use it precludes moving side to side to use either the front LKL, or the LKR. Even though it's a polished metal plate.

A workable combo is the vertical with left or right front hanging knee levers. Pushing up and over is not ideal, but if the vertical's pressure needed is easy, then that's a way I see for you to get some KL combos working. You might consider making the vertical lever actually a large plate, so it can be easily used with any KL.

One last idea: there have been several custom wrist levers on steels, notably MSA. Mike Perlowin here in LA has one on his MSA, and it's actually pretty slick. A wrist lever normally pushes to your right, so you can still move your right hand down the neck for harmonics. But if you could live without the harmonics, you could even install a RWL (right wrist lever moving left). With 2 wrist levers, your setup would have a lot more flexibility and be almost "normal"!