Pedal Steel Is Dead

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 15 Dec 2010 2:25 am

Although some pedal steels are dead, mine is very much alive and well and is played daily!

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 15 Dec 2010 6:36 am

Drew Wofford wrote:Bill, I don't think you took my meaning correctly. I wasn't saying the two instruments were involved in similar genres; they're not. They're about as far away as you can get. I was trying to make the point that the pedal steel would grow in popularity through the same processes the B3 did, only much slower because there are fewer players.

As traditional country is fading, Alt-country is more than replacing it in terms of sheer numbers. Many of those bands have steel players, and many of these players have developed a less "countrified" style of playing - listen to the steel on Son Volt's "Left a Slide".

Don't forget, the steel already went through a growth spurt in the 60's and 70's with country rock. I think it's this sound that influences contemporary players moreso than traditional country.

I agree E9 tuning is the least versatile because of its distinctive Country sound. However, I'd be willing to bet if our great grandchildren grow up hearing E9 sounds in pop, jazz, rap, or whatever the heck they listen to then, they won't think it the slightest bit distasteful. I'm pretty sure back in the 50's, most older adults cringed the first time they heard distortion on a guitar. Everything is relative.

i did not take your post incorrectly. the b3 did not "grow" in popularity...it was a success the day that lawrence hammond invented it. it was immediately used in all sorts of musical settings by all kinds of players...classical, Church, pop--ie jessie crawford and a host of others, jazz and rock. the pedal steel never has had that and never will.

the "alt country"....well there is that "country" word again...when your instrument lives and dies by one word...

the e9 tuning...you are being idealistic in wishing that every onw grew up listening to it and liked it. i am just being realistic in how it sounds when pitted in todays musical settings.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 15 Dec 2010 7:21 am

I think it's probably possible for E9 to get out of the country stereotyping that has been thrust upon us, but whenever we overuse the whole tone legato gliss on the A pedal to play every phrase it just gives us away. IMO that can actually be a bad habit to be very aware and on guard of in our playing!

I still think some of our parochial concepts of "sweetened" tempered tunings, in conjunction with tired A&B pedal styling is going to keep us typecast as something with less than universal musical appeal.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 15 Dec 2010 7:30 am

I agree with Rick. I don't think it's the tuning so much as the technique.

E9th is obviously conducive to creating the "classic country" sound, but the stereotype seems to be a function of technique and style.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 15 Dec 2010 7:52 am

Rick and Mark, yes.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 15 Dec 2010 8:39 am

Drew Wofford wrote: As traditional country is fading, Alt-country is more than replacing it in terms of sheer numbers. Many of those bands have steel players, and many of these players have developed a less "countrified" style of playing - listen to the steel on Son Volt's "Left a Slide".

I just listened to this; in the intro the steel player starts with a whole step bend up to the sixth degree of the scale, ostensibly as stereotypical and vacuous as grandpa's country style steel guitar.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 15 Dec 2010 8:53 am

Bill Hatcher wrote:i think the E9 tuning is not the way of the future for the pedal steel. it is just too easy to fall into the country sounding trap with it. i cringe when i hear a pedal player playing with a pop or a jazz group and hear that sound of the two left pedals!

I cringe too but I am not so sure that E9 should be retired to a museum. I have tried a lot of tunings and still for me E9 is the most versatile. Admittedly my E9 is loaded with lots of extra pulls, but I have also tried some pretty exotic Universal tunings, and I have a C6 with 7p & 5k that I play all night now and then and the local Mexican restaurant. For comparison I work on the Bach cello suites on both E9 and C6, and I always conclude that E9 is better for this pure music that was composed with neither E9 nor C6 in mind.

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 15 Dec 2010 9:22 am

Bach and E9 are made for each other. I agree. Don D

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 15 Dec 2010 9:26 am

Earnest's Ext E9 playing definitely does not fall into any category that can even remotely be considered as stereotypical....unless of course he's trying to play it that way.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 15 Dec 2010 10:16 am

There's new, younger fans coming to steel guitar all the time. Young-timers want the sound in their music.
I realize this was PF's question, but gauging steel guitar's popularity status based on country music alone is narrow-minded. If you ain't gettin' play time and air time with young country, consider your alternatives.

This forum is very stodgy and close-minded. I don't see the future of steel guitar being "fleshed-out" here at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1qa4Sjpl68

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Dec 2010 10:28 am

Right you are, Drew
I've listened to several things Dale Murray has played on and he has a fresh -- totally non-cliche -- totally non-country approach to steel on alternative music. I LIKE IT.

(but then I play in a band that ends most every show with Led Zep 'Whole Lotta Lovin')

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 15 Dec 2010 10:29 am

Earnest's Ext E9 playing definitely does not fall into any category that can even remotely be considered as stereotypical....unless of course he's trying to play it that way.

That would be my take on it…..

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 15 Dec 2010 10:44 am

it's just strings one way or the other. the player chooses what note to play and where to put it.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 15 Dec 2010 11:52 am

Some time back a player who plays a single neck C6 (and who shall remain nameless) teased me about playing "the hillbilly tuning." I answered that I use "The Mozart tuning."

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 15 Dec 2010 12:21 pm

To successfully integrate into other musical genres you have to think a little outside the normal country lick type method of playing -- I have been getting a lot of session calls for Alt Country groups who have no idea about what country steel sounds like and don't want that -- so as a player you have to come from a different direction.... if you have enough knowledge of the E9th neck and it's possibilities you can play anything you like ... I even play with a group who do a bit of reggae and E9th fits that incredibly well - so long as you don't play country licks.

The advantage I have in a small country is that I grew up playing every style imagineable, just to get regular work, so I am not just a "country" player !!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 15 Dec 2010 1:00 pm

like mike and paddy and many of the more mature steel players here on the forum, i learned through decades of playing in clubs with lots of people. it was (and still is) common to play whatever anybody knew. this would span country, rock, folk, swing, boogie, etc.....
so it's funny to hear anyone come up with a 'new concept' of suggesting playing steel in a 'different' type of music. it's been going on forever.
doing sessions with songwriters, you try to play what enhances the song, whatever that might be.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 15 Dec 2010 2:40 pm

A great player can play anything in any tuning. The rest of us, for better or worse, are greatly influenced by whatever tuning we're in and know best. In E9, the easiest moves are the ones that make you go "aha! E9!" the A+B pedal combo being the most common example.

These days, I play 6-string lap steel in B6 and everything I play comes out sounding very western swing. If I want to play in a different style, I have to concentrate and play very differently, usually by avoiding the 6th.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 15 Dec 2010 4:54 pm

How my brain works around a steel guitar is of course very different than the workings of Lloyd Green's brain, but I think the quote below somehow fits into this thread. I have quoted at minimum a half dozen times in the past from an article written about Lloyd by singer/songwriter Robbie Fulks in The Journal Of Country Music from 2005. In this section Fulks writes about Lloyd's choice in going to Shot Jackson and having the workings of the C6th neck removed resulting in what was essentially the first LDG:

" Reduced, on the face of it, to half of the musical hardware of most of his peers, Green proceeded to play all shades of country-including western swing (ironically) on his first post neck removal session for Danny Davis-with a single tuning. "Most (swing) players think you're impotent on E9," Green says. "You can play anything you want on E9. The problem lies in avoiding THINKING. You don't have to think as much with more pedals, more necks, more redundancy." He uses pre-pedal era slants to achieve subtle effects at a tight-rope walker risk level most players would just as soon not assume."

The key point being that players with a higher degree of ability should be able to play things in E9th that don't sound like the same old thing - and there are participants in this thread who are lving proof of that.

Drew Wofford · Post by **Drew Wofford** » 16 Dec 2010 8:46 am

Earnest Bovine wrote:I just listened to this; in the intro the steel player starts with a whole step bend up to the sixth degree of the scale, ostensibly as stereotypical and vacuous as grandpa's country style steel guitar.

Actually I was talking about the distortion. But I don't think there's anything country about bending the 2nd to the 3rd. Guitarists do it all the time. I could name hundreds of 80's big hair power ballad solos that do it. Ain't nuthin country 'bout them.

(Which brings up another interesting point - even if it is country sounding, doesn't the number of youTube videos and instructional material for guitarists on how to do "pedal steel licks" say something about the desireablility of the sound?)

But you're right Ernest, if you keep listening, the guy on the recording plays just about every "stereotypical" lick there is. But between the added distortion, and the power chords every now and then, I come away from the song with a feel of something distinctively non-Nashville. That's what I mean about less "countrified." I think it's just what the song called for. When you play what the song calls for, it's never vacuous, unless the music was vacuous to begin with, and that's another matter entirely.

Or perhaps it doesn't strike me as country because I'm younger and grew up hearing that type of music more than traditional country (see rule #2 in my original post).

Rusty Rhoads · Post by **Rusty Rhoads** » 16 Dec 2010 3:32 pm

Well i say screw radio for one and screw the record industry just make music the people will come if your good enough to be heard !!!! Bovine keep pickin lov yah man!

Merry X MAS to all

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 16 Dec 2010 5:51 pm

My steel ain't dead but sometimes my playing sounds sick...

Working the local bar scene in this area, most of the patrons don't have a clue what the ironing board with strings does until I play a little bit, then their eyes and ears light up with interest, and perhaps, familiarity.

Jeremiah Hanley · Post by **Jeremiah Hanley** » 16 Dec 2010 8:23 pm

I'm 76 years old and I like my music pretty well traditional! Many, many years ago I noticed that most traditional country singers had strings and other orchestrations that made me think they were taking country music to the city. I don't know if that was the producers idea to do that, but a simple 4 or 5 piece band playing traditional chord arrangements makes it sound more country than strings and wind instruments. Constant fast single picking in jazz seems to make an audience restless. Intros, fills turn-arounds and endings featuring the steel guitar is what I like. I betcha a dollar to a doughnut that's what most of us 'non-pro' steel players like!

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 17 Dec 2010 7:13 am

There seems to be a lot of posts here that are adverse to playing E9 in unconventional settings. Go back and listen to Elton John's Tiny Dancer. That's classic E9 backing Elton John. It worked, but it was unusual even for it's day. Then you have another EJ classic, Rocketman. I didn't recognize those etherial sounding glisses as being a steel. I was told some time later it was Buddy Emmons doing it.
What I take from these examples is, do whatever works for the song, and stop worrying about tunings and cliched licks associated with them.

Jeremiah Hanley · Post by **Jeremiah Hanley** » 17 Dec 2010 9:02 am

Paul, If you're still reading this thread, I must say it's a remarkable thread!! You and I met years ago in Studio One when you played on our gospel album. Then again we met a few years ago when you came to play at our OzSGA Show in Branson. I'm the chaplain of the club and along with Terry Bethel and the other officers we had dinner at a restaurant before the show started the next day. Some people never listen to the recordings they've made years ago, but we still enjoy them and we appreciate all the fine steel work you did on that one project. You caught up with our style and spirit fast and that's the way a steel man should do....listen to the singer and try to capture his feeling! We had the privilege of making 3 gospel albums for Rob Parker, who recently passed away.....and we did our best to capture his feeling. Now that he's gone those 3 albums have become a treasure in our CD library! The first time I saw you play was on TV with Mel Tillis. You were great then and great now!
Thanks again for starting this fantastic thread!!!

Ulrich Sinn · Post by **Ulrich Sinn** » 19 Dec 2010 11:37 pm

nobody has mentioned learning/teaching the instrument yet...

one big problem IMHO is that practically all learning materials aim to teach stylistically very narrow:

western swing and hank williams for non-pedal, classic country for e9.

if I would like to play like that (which I would, but can't):

http://www.untiedartists.eu/bjcole-ootb
http://www.untiedartists.eu/lushlife

or even

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-hxz7GQ4M

I more or less have to re-invent the wheel.

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