copedents on Julian Tharpe's S20

Alfred Ewell · From: Virginia, USA

Originally http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=171987 it was surmised that 8 strings were E9 and 12 were E96 (ext. ?) but besides one missing 1 string, there's an enormous string at 10 and 11 is what one would expect as string 1 in and E9. There are 3 or 4 large wound strings that make me think it's C6 out there with E9 closer to home. Nothing's hitting good on the tuner - to be expected between the age of the strings and the good practice of loosening strings for shipping. I have been reluctant to rush into changing anything, and intend to keep it that way.

Guess I'll pick up a set of C6 to compare gauges as well as check my suspicions with an on-hand set of E9's.

Some refurb is needed and Billy Cooper's at Orange VA is relatively close to the work area - but she's sitting in my East VA living room until I get the case refurbished! That kind of weight doesn't fool around with weak corners, and the handle needs bolting on.

I was playing around, as one would imagine, and when I played across both sets, it sounded like a mighty good idea Mr. Tharpe had come up with - quite beautiful, even under my hand. This wonder is going to be well played after a good clean and brush-up.

There's a very good chance the copedent(s) were changed after Julian Tharpe set it all up, but maybe not. Anybody got an idea whether C6/E9 is what he had? I'm going to go with what's on for a while in any case, but if there's a good reason to change it (like original intent), I can go with that.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

that instrument was meant for an adventurous free spirit outside the box virtuoso...julian tharpe..if you are not that...then it will always be something that you will just be tinkering with. best to you in your tinkering. Winking

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Alfred, a check with Reece Anderson or Bud Carter may give you the answer. They built it. Julian was a firm believer in the "6th" tunings, both E and F.

phred
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Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Alfred I have Julian's 14 string setup but I'm not sure it will help you. Here it is with an explanation of the heel toe pedal setup he was using when I studied under him with Joe McHam Houston Texas. Joe may have the complet 20 string setup, I think he owned the 20 string monster for a bit.

There are two rows of pedals . .

This is indicated by the way he located the pedal numbers at the top of the chart -
Pedals 1,2,4,6,8,10,12,14 & 15 were in the rearward tier and pedals 3,5,7,9,11 & 13 were in the forward tier.
As for the duplication on pedals 10 & 11 perhaps the fact that pedal 10 is a regular foot-pedal while pedal 11 is a 'toe-pedal' may enter into play. The duplication on pedal 4 would allow for different pedal combinations than the combinations available to pedals 10 or 11.

phred
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There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!

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Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Fred, Do you remember which guitar that had the staggered pedal setup(maybe more that one)? I saw it( I'm thinking Sharp?) and talked with him when he was in Augusta Ga with Barbara Mandrel,late 70s/early 80s maybe,he also lived, and worked in this area for a time. I think he was living in this area at the end.

Bill
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
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Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Bill, I'm not certain about the guitar with the "staggered pedals" but I recall that Al Marcus (rip) made the comment one time about Julie playing Chuck Wright's Sierra that had 20 pedals. Bill Stafford helped or built this guitar. Maybe he'll join in here.

As to the 20 string "Monster" I went back in some of my old journals and found this piece which was taken from here on the Forum:

"Reece Anderson
posted 27 March 2000 12:42 PM
I first met Julian in the middle of 1966 when he came by the MSA factory. Oddly enough he told me had just taken a job at a club which was within walking distance of where I was playing at the time. A few nights later while on intermission I walked about 100 yards to hear him. I heard the steel before I even entered the door, and man was he swinging. I walked in, said hello, and sat at the table next to him. Needless to say, my chair should have been equipped with a seat belt. He played some of the most incredible things I had ever heard on steel guitar, and I almost ended up on the floor. It was not long before he again came to MSA and said he wanted to talk to me. Sitting down in my office he said, Reeceeee, I want MSA to build me a 20 STRING SINGLE NECK. One can only imagine the look of shock I must have had on my face. After conferring with Bud Carter concerning this specific instance, this is the way we both remember it happening. I took Julian back into the factory and we told Bud what we wanted to build. Bud then pointed out, our first problem was the designing of a keyhead which would fit the dimensions of our guitar cabinet. So Bud got out pencil and paper, and within minutes he said, "we can do it". At the time my dear friend and master guitar builder Chuck Wright (Orginal builder of the Wright Custom and Sierra guitars)was working with us, and he machined the key heads for Julians guitar. We used a double neck body, double neck endplates without a step down, and put two MSA fretboards together. I don't recall how they put two changer units together, but Bud Carter would certainly remember. Julian himself put the guitar together under Buds supervision, and paid for the parts by working with MSA. After he had paid for the parts he continued with MSA about a year and a half. He was also a very good and enthusiastic worker. The guitar cabinet was made of dark marble formica. I have wondered many times where that guitar is today. He installed both an F6th and an E9th on the guitar. We maintained the 11/32 string spacing all the way across the 20 strings. As soon the guitar was completed and it hit the floor he started playing it, and he sounded just as good as he did playing the guitar I had earlier heard him play. The next time we went to the DJ convention in Nashville I asked Julian if he would go and alternate playing with me in the MSA room. He of course agreed. Our playing schedule was something like this. I would play for about 30 minutes and Julian would play about 2 hours. I would come back and play another 30 minutes and Julian would play 3 or 4 hours, AND THAT WAS THE WAY HE WANTED TO DO IT. As long he was fed and watered he would keep going and loved every minute of it, as did those listening, including me. I personally must concentrate very hard while playing, which in itself is very tiring, but when Julian was created they threw the mold away. He was remarkably creative with seemingly no effort at all. Julian and I were dear friends, and I miss him, as do many of you. But by the grace of GOD we have memories, which when coupled with faith will suffice until we meet again.
Rest in peace Julian!
Reece "
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There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!

Think about it!!

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

WOW!!!!!!!!
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!!

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Here's another little whimsical fact that may not be known by many. When Julie came to Dallas times were pretty tough. Reece Anderson was steeling for Ray Price and the Bass Player had walked. Reece approached Blondie Calderon and volunteered to play Bass if Blondie would put Julie behind the steel. It was agreed to and the band was organized in that manner for some time. When I related this story to a certain individual he said, "Pretty big step down for Reece, wasn't it?" I said nothing but to me it was a hell of a leap up in real friendship, "class", and showed the compassion of a man who has been my best friend for a hell of along time.

phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!

Think about it!!

Alfred Ewell · From: Virginia, USA

I'm very glad I came back to this post - you've put some very interesting and helpful words. The blessings of Christmas to you!

I've almost finished beefing the case. Added 3 feet - there was just one - put wheels on one end and a chest handle on the other. The regular handle I bolted on with bracing behind it. Steel corner braces. Yes, this is the "tinkering" phase - I can't bear the thought of this wonder hitting the ground because the case failed!

When I get home Wednesday night I'll mike the strings to get the gauges. I'll bet it's still E9 and F6 as you say, Fred. Hope y'all don't mind hearing this stuff before she's seen and heard again. After years of storage some well-deserved restoration is in order - I've got another steel to play, so I can wait (a little).

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