Pickup Placement

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 10 Feb 2007 9:45 am

Having a volume pot on the steel seems silly if you play with a volume pedal.

No, and neither is it a redundant component. The volume/tone circuit used in six-strings (whether the four-control Les Paul, three-control Strat or two-control Tele type system, each of which is kind of the standard that other makers use except for active electronic designs) operates and sounds different than a floor volume pedal. Volume/tone controls are somewhat interactive. I can roll off the volume control on my Fender 400 or 1000 (and used to on my MSA that had controls) and it's a different tonal effect than backing off the volume pedal.

Brint really nails it - "anti controls" posts seem to either go into the "use your hands" or " it's redundant" direction, neither of which is correct or pertinent to guitar-mounted tone circuits (the volume control being a part of a tone circuit).

I don't doubt most steel players do not want them or think they would be useful. However, manyof us who either used to ar still do play 6-string feel like modern steels are "crippled" by the lack of controls, and adding a Steeldriver or other outboard unit DOES NOT do the same thing! some on probably could take the exact circuit and outboard it like a Matchbox/Steeldriver et al, but I haven't seen one.

But telling a player to go watch someone else change *styles* and assume that it's the same thing as having electronic controls is way off the point and irrelevant.

While it's apparent most players don't want controls, whether they think they are redundant or just don't know what they actually do, it WOULD be nice if makers had them as options and/or add-ons...because some players DO want them and DO understand the difference.

There's also no issue as far as pot durability. If there was, I guess Gibson would have to discontinue the Les Paul...and the ES175...gee, and I guess every other guitar they make! ow, and all amps would need to come with permanently-fused controls.

Well, that would be fine - after all, you can change the whole sound with your hands, so why bother with amp controls either?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 Feb 2007 10:16 am

As long as it's possible to have true bypass of any volume or tone controls, I'm OK with them. I have tone controls on several steels - an old Sho Bud, Emmons SKH Legrande, Sierra, and Zum. I believe they each have a bypass wired in stock, though.

But I agree on the redundancy of the volume control with the extreme prevalence of volume pedal use. A pot volume pedal also interacts with the pickup. Just listen to the difference between a 250KOhm Ernie ball pedal and a 500KOhm Goodrich pedal. Both have their place, but they are different. I see no real need for a volume control on the guitar itself.

Leo Fender recognized early the value of bypassing controls - my favorite "Tele" sound is the Esquire lead position, which bypasses everything and hot-wires the pickup to the output jack. Also note that he bypassed the tone control for the Strat lead pickup.

I think that if there's a real market for it, they'll build it. It's also very easy to add volume and tone controls if you want them.

There are times I would like a steel guitar with more than one pickup, for the softer attack. But I also agree that picking technique and picking location can make a huge difference in tone. I haven't found the lack of a neck pickup an issue at all. But I'll bet that if one was having a steel built, there are builders out there who could accomodate such a request for a second pickup.

Bill Brummett · Post by **Bill Brummett** » 10 Feb 2007 6:53 pm

Tone control can be a powerful tool in the right hands.

Virtually all of the non pedal steels have on board tone controls. Unfortunately, very few have the control knob placed where it is easy to use while playing. Exceptions to this are the old Fender "Diamond Head" models and many of the late 50's Ricky's.

ONe of the best examples of what dynamic tone control can do is in the playing of Kayton Roberts on his Fender D8. On this guitar ( I have one) the tone control is between the necks and farther up toward the nut than the volume control, making it easy to wrap your pinky around it ( at least from the bottom neck) and "adjust" it while playing. If you want to hear some really beautiful voicing from using the tone control actively just listen to Kayton play something like Lonesome Whiporwill. And if you're lucky enough to see him play watch where that pinky stays!!!! Just my personal opinion but I think all steels should have one for each neck and placed properly for easy pinky reach.

I also have a rare 26" Fender Stringmaster Triple 8 which has the best tone of anything I've ever touched. But its' tone control is outboard behind the pickups. and really difficult to use except for the occassional "Doo-Wah" crash.

I currently play a Remington Sustainmaster 2000 D-10 which I love --- stays in tune -- rarely breaks a string -- changers require virtually no tweaking. A really great guitar..... but I really miss the active tone control.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 28 Nov 2010 4:39 pm

Would the "Diamond Head" model you refer to be the one the Hawaii Calls Players used ?.

Also Your description of the positioning of the tone control on the Stringmaster 26" three neck model puzzles me somewhat, "outboard" ?

Bill Brummett · Post by **Bill Brummett** » 28 Nov 2010 8:52 pm

Not sure about the guitars on Hawaii Calls, but the Fender I refer to is a 22" dual eight. The strings actually pass through the pick-up body.

Both the volume and tone controls on the 26" Stringmaster are behind the pickups on the "Outboard" end of the guitar's lower neck.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 29 Nov 2010 1:51 am

I did jest somewhat Bill, the Fender you refer to as the "Diamond Head Model" is generally referred to as having "Trapezoid" pick-ups. Where you get the terminology you use from is a mystery ? I've never seen a triangular diamond.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=178139

Ah, so "Outboard" means still on the guitar but not between the bridge and nut!, in the position usually termed the "End-plate" Yes ?
I would have thought the tone control on the 26" that you have, would be to the right of the pickups (As you sit at the guitar) Methinks "Behind the pickups" paints quite a different picture.

It's that George Bernard Shaw quote rearing it's ugly head again..

I thought that with the steel guitar we had a common terminology.
Fascinating..if not a trifle confusing.

Bill Brummett · Post by **Bill Brummett** » 29 Nov 2010 10:44 am

basilh wrote:I did jest somewhat Bill, the Fender you refer to as the "Diamond Head Model" is generally referred to as having "Trapezoid" pick-ups. Where you get the terminology you use from is a mystery ? I've never seen a triangular diamond.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=178139

Ah, so "Outboard" means still on the guitar but not between the bridge and nut!, in the position usually termed the "End-plate" Yes ?
I would have thought the tone control on the 26" that you have, would be to the right of the pickups (As you sit at the guitar) Methinks "Behind the pickups" paints quite a different picture.

It's that George Bernard Shaw quote rearing it's ugly head again..

I thought that with the steel guitar we had a common terminology.
Fascinating..if not a trifle confusing.

I've heard the pickups referred to as "Trapezoid" too, but the term "Diamond Head" to describe them came from
Herb Remington. Perhaps he was influenced by the geographical spot with that name in Hawaii.

Yes, the volume and tone controls on the 26" SM are to the right of the pickups on the bottom neck. I guess I used the term "Outboard" to mean that they are completely "outside" of the playing area.

I assume you're joking about commmon terminology vis a vis the steel guitar.......