christmas time is here/ improvisation woes

Jesse Adams · Post by **Jesse Adams** » 26 Nov 2010 9:44 am

like so many players on the forum I am relatively new the the steel and trying to learn improvisation. It's a tough ride let me tell you! I feel like I usually start out with a couple good ideas but they never really come to fruition. I Usually "lose it" about halfway through a line. Anyway I thought I'd share where I am in the process and in turn open myself up to some constructive critiquing/ advising from anyone who feels so inclined. (but don't be too hard on me, I've only been playing pedal free for about 6 months or so)

http://www.mediafire.com/?1fdmltq87h0fdr1

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 26 Nov 2010 10:33 am

Jesse, that is an ambitious tune you took on, as it is not easy to improvise on it fluidly without understanding what is going on harmonically in the tune. Just in the first 2 bars, you've got 2 chords which are unrelated diatonically: FMaj7 and Eb13#11, so one of the easiest ways to deal with these first is looking at chord/scale relationships (modes).

FMaj7 is the tonic chord, so you could play notes from the F Maj scale, or even the CMaj scale (which would give a Lydian sound). The Eb13#11 chord fits nicely with the Eb Lydian Dominant scale (same notes as a Bb melodic Minor scale) Eb F G A Bb C Db Eb. From those 2 scales you can work on creating small motifs that reflect the differences in the scales but keep the same melodic shape and rhythm.

After that the chords become a little more difficult to navigate and you can use the same steps to identify the functions of the chords. For example, the next chords are a series of ii-V7s (with tritone substitutions) back to the tonic: (I don't have a chart or instrument in front of me to test this, just going by my ears)

Bmi7b5 -->Bbmi7-->Ami7-->Abmi7-->Gmi7-->F#mi7-->FMaj7

The italicized chords are just passing chords, so they don't need to play heavily into your improv, but you must focus on the Bmi7b5, Ami7 and Gmi7. The Bmi7b5 is diatonically related to C Maj (built on 7th degree of scale it is the Locrian mode), so you could use notes from the C Major scale. Ami7 in this case could be the ii chord of G, so the A Dorian mode would apply. Same for the Gmi7, except it is the ii of F.

This is just one simple suggestion, there are so many ways to approach improvisation, but the above, in my opinion is essential for success in improvisation over challenging material.

Another thing to observe: listen how simple the melody is in the song. The improvisation could be a reflection of that simplicity. The melody is unmoved by the descending ii-V7 sequence, and it is beautiful.

Good luck with it.
Mike

Jesse Adams · Post by **Jesse Adams** » 27 Nov 2010 8:47 pm

Thanks Mike! That's exactly the kind of input I was looking for! Its definitely pretty difficult for me to take things apart on that level. but it's very helpful. I'll try to approach it that way. so far my approach has just been scrambling for notes that sounded okay. (Which always ends up with the simplicity of the tune being lost, and nothing really being said musically.)

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 28 Nov 2010 6:51 pm

Jesse, here is a quick take of one chorus of improv over the verses and bridge. I used the scales I described above and tried to show how each chord change affects the note choices. I also tried to keep it melodic and simple to illustrate the point that if you find the common notes between the chord/scales, you can introduce playing that doesn't sound mechanical, such as the way the melody of the song works.

Christmas Time Is Here improv

Jesse Adams · Post by **Jesse Adams** » 28 Nov 2010 7:45 pm

The link doesn't work. but I'd definitely love to hear it! I played around with those scales today. I really like the way the Cmaj sits over the Fmaj7 chord, but I didn't really have much time with it. This is an ambitious tune for sure, but it's forcing me to learn alot of things I've been wanting to learn anyway.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 28 Nov 2010 7:51 pm

Sorry, man, I forgot to upload it. Now it's done.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Nov 2010 7:26 am

i did not listen to your link...didnt have to...you picked a hard tune to improvise to!!! lol

i was playing a gig sat night and there was a little walk in music that we needed to play while folks were coming in the auditorium. i was playing bass. we were just playing some standards and doing some solos to take up some time...Christmas Time Is Here got called...these were hardened old pros playing...you should have heard some of the scuffling going on while soloing to all those changes, including me!!! lol

pick an easier song next time!! please!!!

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 29 Nov 2010 8:49 am

Here is a great way to learn your fretboard a bit better and hone your instinct, which to me is the most important thing of all in improve...

You will need some software that allows you to loop sections of the song. Then what you do is loop the song section by section -- a measure or two at a time would be good. As it loops, play along until you discover all the potential "boxes" or keynotes available to you in that range. Really work it. Get adventurous and feel free to experiment. Once you like what you're doing you can move on to the next couple of measures. Eventually you will want to review the song as a whole and tackle it that way. The patterns you drilled will come back to you as you attempt to string them all together. New ideas will emerge.

For me it's all heart first, theory later -- but I have always struggled with theory. For some it comes easy. You gotta do what works best for you. The way I described works well for me.

Great song. Hope you have fun with it.

Seasons Greetings!
John

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 29 Nov 2010 11:12 am

J., I agree that is a good way to get the ball rolling, but music theory is nothing more than a way of identifying relationships between notes, chords and rhythms--the music comes first, the theory is really just flexible guidelines that you can apply or ignore, as you choose. If you found something you really liked in terms of a harmonic relationship between a note and a chord, why not try to identify it and have it at your disposal at all times in any key? It is really not as hard as you think it is.

I guarantee I can get just about anyone who is willing to learn to understand this stuff in a month or two. It would just be cursory knowledge, but it would be more than enough to give a huge head start in terms of improvisation.

Anyone interested?

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 29 Nov 2010 11:33 am

Mike Neer wrote: I guarantee I can get just about anyone who is willing to learn to understand this stuff in a month or two. It would just be cursory knowledge, but it would be more than enough to give a huge head start in terms of improvisation.

Anyone interested?

I'm interested, however, after years and years of formal music study I find it hard to believe that anyone could make someone as dyslexic and ADD as myself understand theory properly.

What's the deal?

Jesse Adams · Post by **Jesse Adams** » 29 Nov 2010 3:12 pm

Sign me up mike! I'm dying to learn! J. I totally agree with what you said, and that's more or less what I've been doing. I just want it to be like math. once I know 2 plus 2 is 4 I can use that anywhere that it's applicable.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 29 Nov 2010 4:33 pm

I just posted the first of my Understanding Harmony In A Month series

on my Blog, rather than here, so I can keep it focused.

http://www.mikeneer.com/lapsteelin/?p=430

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 29 Nov 2010 6:02 pm

Mike Neer wrote:I just posted the first of my Understanding Harmony In A Month series on my Blog, rather than here, so I can keep it focused.

But I like going Off Topic!

But I agree that a blog will work much better.

In the 40's Joaquin Murphey couldn't read the charts but he sure had an incredible sense of harmony and melody, and IMO his flowing improvisations were as good as it gets- for any instrument. I'm looking forward to taking your class!

Steve Ahola