Wobbly legs: What's the fix?

[Paul Sutherland]

The steel that is. Every time I hit a knee lever the whole thing shifts. I just noticed when I happened to move the steel slightly that the body rotates in comparison to the legs. I can push on any two opposing corners and cause the body of the guitar to sort of spin.

I'm pretty certain the legs &/or the leg sockets in the end plates are the culprits. The guitar is a 27 year old well used Emmons; so things certainly could be fairly worn. I always hand tighten the legs when assembling the steel, but in just minutes of playing the legs are loose again.

I would like a bit more stability, but buying a new steel is not going to happen. Plus I love the sound of this guitar. It just needs a bit of attention.

Any suggestions?

[Nic du Toit]

Some plumber's tape on the thread may help. Otherwise what Georg said.

[Bent Romnes]

Paul, if it is the threaded stud that is loose, the only remedy might be to get new legs or somehow tighten up the old ones. I have a set here where the stud came loose and the former owner drilled a hole and put a pin in the hole, to no avail.

If it is the threads being loose, try tightening a little extra with pliers that have nylon jaws.

[John Swain]

Paul, a previous thread on this suggested black rubber o-rings of the proper size..I've been meaning to check hardware stores and find some! JS

[Dale Hansen]

Paul, The rubber 'O' rings, if thin enough, might be a decent solution to give enough back pressure on the threads.
Offhand, I'd say that the problem that you're having is most likely a combination of wear on both the threads and receiver. You could invest in some new thread inserts for the legs, but it might not solve the problem if the female receiver is too worn out.
Here is another cheap fix that you could try; 2:1 shrink wrap tubes. Your threads are most likely a 5/8" diameter, but I'd try the 1/2" first, and hyper-extend the tubing just enough to fit over the threads. You'll need a heat gun. They're not very expensive if you have to buy one.
They sell it by the foot here > http://cableorganizer.com/heat-shrink/heat-shrink2.htm
You could also call the toll free number and ask the rep if they have any ultra-thin wall tubing.

If you want to try an instant, temporary solution to test the 'fill' theory, try this;
Remove the legs and clean the threads thoroughly with alcohol. You might need to use a degreaser first if there's any oil residue. Comet cleanser, warm water, and a toothbrush ought to do the trick.
After the threads are cleaned with the alcohol, and dried completely (20 minutes) take a small paint brush, like a nail polish brush, and 'paint' on a layer of superglue all around the threads. You might be able to thin out the Superglue with rubbing alcohol if it's going on too thick. The trick is to get it even, with no thick spots. You can always add more layers later, after it's dry to beef it up a little more. Let each coat dry thoroughly before adding the next coat, to build it up gradually.

[Paul Sutherland]

Thanks to all for the many suggestions. I'll probably start with the simplest tips first (i.e., plumber's tape, lock washers or rubber o rings; or nylon oil drain plug gaskets--sent to me by email by another forumite.)

Dale: Where does one buy new thread inserts for the legs? This won't be one of the first solutions I'll try, but I could end up there.

I sure don't want to think that the only real answer is new legs and end plate from Emmons (if they are even available.)

[Sonny Priddy]

Oil Drain Plug Gaskets work great I've Used Them Just Get The right Size And Glue Them To The Leg. SONNY.

[Ron Davis]

Less drinkin'...

[Ron Davis]

C'mon...
Somebody hadta say it.

[Roger Kelly]

Paul, here is a picture below of the Helicoil Kit that I purchased last year to correct a loose thread problem in one of the legs on my Rittenberry. It would not tighten up and stay that way, so I bought a Helicoil Kit from TOOLSQWIK in Arizona for about
$15.00 and drilled out the threads on the loose leg and inserted the Helicoil and have not had any more problems. It is a lot cheaper than trying to buy end plates and going through all of that.
If your threads are 1/2x13 like a lot are, you can buy a Kit like this... if you need to go that far.

[Leonard G. Robertson]

Just a word of caution, I used a hand drill & expected the bit to self align following the old hole alignment. I was ashamed when one leg didn,t align with others properly. It tightened just fine, however on a tile floor I saw my mistake quickly on one out of the two legs I installed.

[Tom Vollmer]

Paul,
Helicoil repair kits woulbe the easist fix,however you must be very careful if you are going to drill by hand.To do the job right the end plates should be removed and the thread redone on a Bridgeport type milling machine.Also another thread repair would be E-Z Locs.Helicoil and E-Z Locs are both available as are almost any thing you would ever hope to build or repair from MSC.If it is an Emmons guitar it probably is a 1/2 13 NC thread at 10 degrees from the Vertical.
TV

[C Dixon]

Paul,

With all due respect, please make sure it is loose threads before doing any rethreading or using inserts.

The most likely cause is the threaded STUD is loose in the leg. this is common.

There is no real cure for this. you can easily test this:

1. See if you can screw the leg in tightly.

2. If you can and the leg still is wobbly, then the threaded stud is problably loose INside the hollow leg. They are press fitted onto the leg at the factory.

Order a new leg is best.

3. If it is the threaded female part in the end plate (not likely), then of course the helicoil threaded insert is the answer.

4. IF the stud thread is stripped, then plumbers tape may be the answer; but even here, best to simply order a new leg.

Good luck dear friend, and may Jesus guide you in all you do,

c.

[Paul Sutherland]

I decided to do the simplest, least invasion procedure first. I unscrewed the legs and discovered a bunch of junk (metallic looking shavings) on the threads of each leg and in the corresponding receiver for each leg. I cleaned all this junk off with Q tips and Kleenex. Then I wrapped the threads with plumber's tape and re-assembled everything.

Seems to have done the trick!! I've played for several hours since, and the legs are still tight and the guitar is considerably more stable. Hope it holds.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

[John Billings]

Seems to me that it's doubtful that the male leg inserts have worn to any degree. They're steel. The much softer aluminum in the endplate is where the wear would occur. And you mentioned "metallic looking shavings?" I'd bet they're aluminum shavings. Make sure the threads on the legs aren't dinged up, or have burrs. If they are rough, you're just gonna keep making the problem worse, as they may be cutting the soft aluminum each time you screw them in.
Just my opinion though.

[C Dixon]

VERY well stated John Billings

[John Billings]

Thanks Carl! Just seems logical to me.

[Paul Sutherland]

Good point John!! I'll check the threads next time I tear it down, and clean up any burrs I find. But right now the guitar is working great; legs are staying tight and much less body wobble.

[Jr. Watts]

I don't know if it still available or not, but loctite used to make a thread restore kit. It was some kind of epoxy. If I remember right you applied one part to the female threads and applied the other part to the male threads. This material filled the worn spaces between the threads and still allowed the parts to be separated as needed. It worked really well on automotive applications. Good luck with whatever you try. Jr.

[John Billings]

The Loctite kit is no longer available.
http://www.statesupply.com/displayCategory.do?Id=2376

[Bobby D. Jones]

You described a mess on the threads that looked like metal and oil. Was it Actually oil with metal shaving in it? Or was it low temp Anti-Seize. It looks like alumnium paint except thick. Some mechanics want to use it on everything and it can cause problems. Lug nuts on a boat trailer is one of its best uses. Glad you found the problem. Good Luck and happy Steelin

[Fred Treece]

Paul, just wondering if you found a permanent solution to this. I am having the same problem. The threaded inserts are tight, so I think my problem is with the threads on either the legs or the sockets or a little of both. I have tried wrapping threads in teflon tape, but that wears off after the first time taking the legs out.

[Ron Shalita]

Wow I have never come across anything like this.. usually the threaded inserts get loose .. on one of my guitars I spot welded the inserts... fixed that problem.....next?

[Dave Magram]

Fred,

I'd suggest buying some O-rings for plumbing at a hardware store.

I used Danco 96724 "#7 O-rings": 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID x 1/16" thick.

Just slip an O-ring past the threaded section on each leg to where there is a big groove next to the bottom of the leg, as shown in the photo below...



The O-ring gets squeezed between the threaded portion on the leg and the socket in the steel guitar body and keeps the leg from loosening--even when it looks like it is worn out, like this one does.

Can't beat the price; a 10-pack of those O-rings costs about $2.50.

- Dave