Do you play in a bar where a lot of folks don't drink?

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 1 Nov 2010 7:10 am

I played a gig this weekend. It was a "shared" gig. The band plays for 45 min., then a DJ spins CDs for 30 minutes. (repeat 4 times) We get a few dancers on the floor when we play, then when the CD's fire up, the dance floor is packed with line dancers that have learned special dances to particular songs. It's a bit depressing. Maybe this is a California thing. But I would say that the drinking is moderate, but active all night. I'm not sure live bands and DJs mix that well. : )

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 1 Nov 2010 1:45 pm

The non drinking situation happened around here, (Long Island, NY Metro Area) about the late 80's through now. The club owners were catering to the line dancers, who, mostly don't drink. A cover charge to get in was usual. In the beginning, the dancers were sometimes treated to a free buffet. Then, the club owners charged $5.00 for a small bottle of water or a glass of coke. The "bizzness", as they say, went down the tubes and so did most all of the country clubs. And yes, there was usually a "DJ" spinning tunes when the band took a break. And, I would have to say that, some of the dancers wouldn't get up when the band played, but, not always. The whole concept is so convoluted, there's no real one reason for all this. Having said that, the DWI laws around here are pretty stiff and there were many a night, when, a cop would be sitting in or near the parking lot. Eventually, the bars patrons went missing and the club scene dried up. To this day, there are no clubs where I live, that, play country music. Believe it or not, in NYC there are a couple, but, you don't have to drive a car to be a patron.

Mike Schwartzman · Post by **Mike Schwartzman** » 1 Nov 2010 1:55 pm

I was just wondering if any of you forum brothers and sisters are seeing the same thing.

Sure thing Chuck. It's been that way around here for a long time. The drinking and driving laws are very stiff around here. And DUI's and DWI's are big business. We have Maryland counties, Northern Virginia counties, and Wash.DC. Depending on where where those laws are violated (even for a 1st time offense)...there are thousands of dollars in fines, lawyers fees, court costs, and mandatory alcohol education programs that must be paid for. When you compare those costs to a Friday or Saturday bar tab...many folks stay away from clubs and bars unless they drink in closer to downtown near lots of public transportation. If I'm not mistaken, ANY amount of alcohol on a breath test can land a person a DUI in the city (DC)

Needless to say, the prospects for a steel playing gig in club or bar can get pretty dim around here. I used to play many gigs in Northern Va. on bass. I'm glad I don't drink. They would have nailed me years ago.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 1 Nov 2010 5:50 pm

It would be very interesting indeed to learn which genres of music attract the most attention from DUI enforcement.I should not be at all surprised if bars offering live country music headed that list.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 1 Nov 2010 7:21 pm

There's a "bluegrass/deadhead" bar that I play at once or twice a month here in rural NY state. The cops sometimes come in to drink, and they seem to like the music and the owner, and they are never anywhere to be seen at the end of the night. Big crowd of steady drinkers every time. But then my bandmates and I always set a good example...

Yet I haven't gotten a paying traditional country gig around here for 30 years, and I used to work 4 nights a week around here playing nothing but country! The police definitely shut that scene down hard, decades ago, and it never recovered. All those hard drinking guys can now be seen around town sadly riding bicycles, at age 60+...

I know of another bluegrass-friendly bar around here that is often packed to the rafters. And there is a "reggae" bar (I'm using these descriptions loosely -- every place has a variety of music) near the local ski areas that also does a huge business, with a big parking lot smoking scene, I'm told, and it appears the police ignore it. Weird. If I was a cop I'd go easy on all the old country boys and lock up all them ear-damaging rockers!

I got a DUI a few years ago and had to go to "cocktail college." It was full of pretty young women! Apparently the cops pull over all the attractive young girls, and, sure enough, a certain percentage of them are drunk...

I saw from one thread here about the day jobs of steel players that lots of Forum members are police officers or deputies. What do you guys have to say on this subject?

Here's a fact: You are MUCH more likely to die from industrial pollutants than from drunk drivers...

Elton Smith · Post by **Elton Smith** » 1 Nov 2010 9:09 pm

This is a great suject.Alcohol and tobacco are mainly taxes.So cut those out and the average person has to make up the difference.So in order to make the money DWI is 2000.00,so no one drinks out anymore.So the tax base is gone.The none smoker and nondrinker pays the taxes that those that did pay.So we cut off our nose because we didn't like our face.Look where we are at now.

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 5 Nov 2010 6:07 pm

Maybe I should clear up a couple of points. The band that I'm speaking of is plenty good enough to "Demand" a cover charge. We play a lot of venues on the weekends that have a door cover charge. This particular gig that I'm posting about is on a week night. The "No cover charge" thing is the clubs policy on week nights.
On that issue I feel differently than the club. I don't think a $3.00 to a $5.00 cover charge would keep people from coming in. The cover charge could go a long way in helping the business gain toward paying the band. That's the way I see it.
The other subject I'd like to aproach is this:
I DO NOT drink when I'm playing, or at anytime I'm out in public. (I think I drank a 6 pack of beer at home total, last year while watching the Texas Rangers play Baseball) Drinking is not important to me. BUT, maintaining my sober reputation is. In 40 years on the bandstand playing to a room full of drinkers, I've never gotten drunk on the bandstand. (One time I did AFTER the gig with an old Rodeo buddy, and I wanted to die for the next two days.)
I don't have anything against those who do drink, It's just not for me. I do not want someone to think he bought me a drink (Not even a Coke, which I also do not drink) I drink water, and coffee You can buy me that. I'm not there to drink, I'm there to work.
I'm on a mission to get set up, and make sure my equipment is going to function as it is supposed to, and after the gig, I'm on a mission to get the equipment put away properly, and loaded. Then I'll sit and visit. I just wanted to explain the way I AM.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 6 Nov 2010 5:04 am

We play only one place that has a "No Alcohol" policy.
I do remember that many years ago there were large "dance halls" that did not sell alcohol. Most of those were out in the country. They did however, sell soda and ice. All that I was ever in did have a cover charge. Some had a no alcohol policy so you kept it off the table and then some were so strict that you went to the car during a break.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 6 Nov 2010 7:10 am

Code: Select all

All those hard drinking guys can now be seen around town sadly riding bicycles, at age 60+...

got pics ?

here the law, stop folks on bicycles too
they'll haul you in, fine you & take yer drivers license away too if you're over the limit
roller skates are where it's at....

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 6 Nov 2010 7:39 am

Gee, Crow Bear -- I thought the French would appreciate how much Bordeaux I consume! I figured I would get a medal from Sarkozy for propping up their economy, rather than get rudely pulled off my wobbling bicycle!

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 11 Nov 2010 7:47 pm

Well, as expected, our Tuesday Night job has been cancelled. It amazes me that all our customers, (or at least most of them) got in free, didn't have to pay to park, and were treated to some outstanding Traditional Country Dance music by an award winning band, and they didn't support the business that was "Giving" it to them. I'm not at all mad, hurt, or surprised that the club had to terminate the Tuesday Night gig. (The club owner loves our Band, and wants us for some weekends this coming year)
One positive thing about this is, We are leaving on good terms, and will still be backing various artists there through the year.

IF you are a true fan of any kind of music, I suggest you get off the couch, and go support LIVE music before it's all gone!

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 14 Nov 2010 4:58 am

Having seen a few in action, and the resulting destruction of lives and property, I can't believe I'm seeing posts more or less defending drunk drivers...

At 0.08, a person with moderate alcohol habits is seriously inebriated, barely able to insert the ignition key and certainly not fit to even ride a bicycle in public. It takes a "professional" alcoholic not to feel intoxicated at that level.

Over here the limit is 0.02, which I think is just the way it should be. Our abilities, judgment and reaction times are long gone by the time we think they are starting to fade.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 14 Nov 2010 5:50 am

Per Berner wrote:Having seen a few in action, and the resulting destruction of lives and property, I can't believe I'm seeing posts more or less defending drunk drivers...

At 0.08, a person with moderate alcohol habits is seriously inebriated, barely able to insert the ignition key and certainly not fit to even ride a bicycle in public. It takes a "professional" alcoholic not to feel intoxicated at that level.

Over here the limit is 0.02, which I think is just the way it should be. Our abilities, judgment and reaction times are long gone by the time we think they are starting to fade.

I'm not defending drunk driving, but the hypocrisy is astonishing. I'm sure here in the states MADD has 0,02 in their sites. I guess when it hits 0.00 MADD can turn out the lights and go home, huh?
Why don't they just outlaw alcohol outside of the home altogether? No more Budweiser at the baseball games, no more Texas/Red Dirt concerts sponsored by Bud Lite. No mo wine or cocktails at your favorite restaurants. No more beer at Billy Bob's. No more festivals, no more open bar at your daughter's reception. NO MORE, NO MORE, NO MORE!!
The lame pitch by the industry to "drink responsibly" is a joke. How do you go out to ANY of the aforementioned, and not exceed 0.02? Oh, yes. You get a designated driver. Yeah right.
At a Dallas Cowboys game, or major concert, what percentage of drinkers would you guess have a DD?
There is not clear answer other than, it doesn't happen in the real world.
Bottom line, the booze industry knows it will never be outlawed outside the home, and law enforcement knows it's a huge cash cow.
And around and around we go.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 14 Nov 2010 7:54 am

Guess which ones the designated driver?

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 14 Nov 2010 8:25 am

Chris, I'm with Per here.
The beer at ball games is not what we want to get rid of; it's the person that drives home after the ball game over the limit. Ever heard of a designated driver? THAT'S where it's at these days. Take turns driving home from the bar with a sober driver - or take a cab.

North America is so sadly behind the rest of the world when it comes to this issue. It is the same problem here in Canada.

We can't blame alcohol laws on the poor turnout in bars etc. We have to start blaming our own attitude about those same laws.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 14 Nov 2010 8:50 am

Having seen a few in action, and the resulting destruction of lives and property, I can't believe I'm seeing posts more or less defending drunk drivers...

Driving drunk is not a good thing, of course, unless you are a professional - and there are experienced drinkers who can be over the limit and drive just fine, so I've been told by law enforcement folks - but, as stated, catching and prosecuting suspected drunk drivers is a huge cash cow, and the reason is because you can put a number on it - the BAC - and use that to start legal proceedings from which everybody involved, except the driver, begins hauling in money.

I see very few drivers who seem to be drunk, but every time I go somewhere I see bad drivers who can cause just as much destruction of life and property. They're texting, yakking on the phone, tailgating, eating, not using turn signals... And the list goes on. But you can't easily attach a number to activity like this, so it's not such a convenient source of revenue.

If you're over the limit and impaired you might crash into a school bus and kill a dozen innocent little children, but if you're tailgating - and completely sober - the same potential is there, but the worst you get out of that might be a ticket.

I'm not defending drunk driving, I just think it's been blown all out of proportion because so many people have found ways to make money from it.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 14 Nov 2010 11:36 am

I'm with Cal.It's much more about money and control than public safety.In all societies,there are always minority behaviors arbitrarily considered "sinful",and the punishment for the sinful behavior usually starts with confiscation of the sinners' assets through taxation and fines,much of which revenue goes to fund more propaganda against the sinful behavior,casting it as an apocalyptic threat against All That Is Holy,from which only the Four Horsemen of Government can Save Us All.
Too bad we musicians got caught in the Battle between Good and Evil.Been a little rough on the gig situation. $:\$

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 14 Nov 2010 1:10 pm

I have made these same arguments before. The bars are the politically correct target. They don't stop every other person leaving a ball game or a car race.
Here, you would never see them stop someone leaving a state owned liquor store. Do you think everyone going in is buying their FIRST pint of the day?

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 14 Nov 2010 1:35 pm

Alan Tanner · Post by **Alan Tanner** » 15 Nov 2010 2:51 am

I have never been pulled over leaving a job, but my band mates have. Stopped for supposedly weaving, driving too slow, didn't get their headlights on fast enough, no turn signal at the corner, and on and on. These are just excuses to get you out of your car. I had a really beautiful niece and her husband both killed at the same time by a drunk driver, leaving a 5 year old son that my 60 year old sister and her husband are trying to raise. I am really tainted about this subject, but on the other hand, if the police enforced these same laws during the day (because of texting, reading, putting on makeup, cell phones, shaving, TURN SIGNALS, reckless behavior, no operators license) the traffic courts would be full. A large percentage of accidents and deaths seem to be caused by folks that have multiple convictions and no drivers license anyway. So we are NOT getting them off the road. On the other hand, it may stop folks who normally don't get tanked from getting a devastating DUI. There ARE alternatives, including designated drivers, taxi, etc. A few clubs around here tried giving rides some years back. The problem with that was, we are a very mobile society, and people lived too far away, or were reluctant to leave their car in a parking lot. Then you had to get a ride back the next day. I think the gig thing is just slowly dying away in clubs and bars anyway. Younger people are not as sociable as their parents generation and those before. I think a great majority of the guys I know, met there other half in a bar or club, and that was where folks went to meet folks. Not so much today. Since the internet it has become way more common for online romances to flourish. I play music at a lot of different venues, and even the ones that sell alcohol claim that even tho the place is crowded, booze sales are way down. Even the big New Years bashes have diminished from what they used to be. I have found that non alcohol events are just as much fun, the crowd is actually listening and applauding, and usually the pay is about average for this area. One restaurant where we have been for a little over a year is packed when we play, the crowd loves it, and they sing along with the tunes and dance also. Of course, we are not getting rich at it, and I will not be adding on the south wing to my castle that I had planned, but it IS an alternative choice and I get to play music. Sorry for the ramble...just some thoughts on a tuff situation for all of us who used to play clubs and bars steadily........

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 15 Nov 2010 7:34 am

I think folks now days have noticed that this is not the same country they used to live in and everything has changed due to all these new laws. It's against the law to drink and drive but you can fly in on a UFO with no drivers license and vote five or six times at each election even after you're dead.
We still have the right to stay home, not go to a bar and remain silent.

Bill Lowe · Post by **Bill Lowe** » 15 Nov 2010 3:12 pm

stupid new laws? I wonder how his family feels about DUI?

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_n ... 101115-akd

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 15 Nov 2010 3:42 pm

Barry Hyman wrote:From Trease and Evans' "Pharmacognosy," Fourteenth Edition, a pharmacy school textbook published by Saunders in 1996:

"Hops have the properties of an aromatic bitter and are said to have a sedative action..."

Sorry guys -- don't mean to hijack the thread. But issues of intoxication (venue drink sales and DWI enforcement) seem to be directly related to the economics of the live music business...

Boon and Smith's "The Botanical Pharmacy" published by Quality Health Books in 1999 lists "insomnia" as the first medical use of hops, and points out that hops "may potentiate the action of alcohol."

I beleive, as do most brewers, that the sedative or intoxicating properties of hops are neglible. Often times a very hoppy beer will have higher alcohol however because more malt is needed to balance the bitterness of the hops and the sugar in malt is what is converted to alcohol by the yeasts. I used to brew beer and I currently grow hops too. My friend, who would try anything, smoked hops once. He would have loved to have gotten high off them but did not. It is said if you place some hops under your pillow you will have wild dreams. This has not proven to be the case for me either.

anyway, yeah...booze...its a harsh mistress

Instead of the bars here in SEattle, the cops now hang out at Dicks (burger joint) on late nights afterbar. They figure, and they are right it seems, that anyone coming in for a burger and fries at 2:00AM is drunk.

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 16 Nov 2010 2:35 pm

Well.... I think this thread has gone a very different direction than I was trying to take it.
My post wasn't about people coming out for some "Free" dancing and then going out of the building, driving drunk, killing innocent folks on the way home.
It was about people getting in FREE, dancing FREE and not supporting the business that gives them quality entertainment FREE.
No one in our band supports Drinking and Driving. What ever happened to someone going out dancing, and having one or two? (You should know your limit.)
For one thing, You don't have to go to a Bar and get wasted. You can do that in the local Wal-Mart parking lot, if that's the kind of person you are.
You can stay at home, get drunk, run out of liquor, get in you car (Drunk) and go to the local Liquor store and in the process, wipe out an innocent person or an entire family before the 10:00 News comes on.
Again, I'm not advocating Drunk Driving, or even Drinking Alcohol, just support the kind of Live music you like and the places that supply it for you.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 16 Nov 2010 5:20 pm

Chuck Cusimano wrote:Well.... I think this thread has gone a very different direction than I was trying to take it.
My post wasn't about people coming out for some "Free" dancing and then going out of the building, driving drunk, killing innocent folks on the way home.
It was about people getting in FREE, dancing FREE and not supporting the business that gives them quality entertainment FREE.
No one in our band supports Drinking and Driving. What ever happened to someone going out dancing, and having one or two? (You should know your limit.)
For one thing, You don't have to go to a Bar and get wasted. You can do that in the local Wal-Mart parking lot, if that's the kind of person you are.
You can stay at home, get drunk, run out of liquor, get in you car (Drunk) and go to the local Liquor store and in the process, wipe out an innocent person or an entire family before the 10:00 News comes on.
Again, I'm not advocating Drunk Driving, or even Drinking Alcohol, just support the kind of Live music you like and the places that supply it for you.

Chuck-
Your point is well taken about people not supporting live music,and live music's consequent near-disappearance.It does seem that a workable alternative to supporting music through the sale of alcohol by the drink has yet to appear.Also yet to appear is an apology and assistance to the music community from the groups and government entities who have done very well indeed at the expense of a lot of local players whose gigs have gone bye-bye.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Do you play in a bar where a lot of folks don't drink?

Does this ever happen to you?

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