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Topic: Age old question no doubt...Hilton or Goodrich? |
Benjamin Wolfram
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 4:22 am |
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Okay I've got myself a lovely steel on the way...now which volume pedal?
It'll be either a Hilton or a Goodrich. I like the idea of the Hilton's infra-red technology and the fact that it apparently is completely transparent, but not so much the fact that it requires its own power supply (not a big deal though).
I like the fact that the Goodrich is pure and simple and a technology that isn't necessarily "cutting edge" but is something that all the greats of yesteryear probably used in all those famous recordings we listen to. Not needing a power supply of its own is a plus but not so crash hot on the idea of pot noise or a slight tone suck as you roll it off.
What about the more advanced Goodrich pedals? Are they worth thinking about? |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 4:33 am
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Goodrich, at one time, had an electronic volume pedal to compete with the Hilton but it too needed a power supply - either a "wall wart" like the Hilton or a large battery supply that clipped on to the steel guitar leg. Goodrich could not compete with Hilton and discontinued the product.
Along with the volume control pot failures, the Hilton also eliminates the potential mechanical failures in a pot pedal such as the string that moves the pot.
Most of us have other things that require power, such as effects units, so having to also plug in the power for a volume pedal is really not a big issue. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 8:08 am
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| If you don't want the "slight tone suck as you roll it off," you are going to have to plug something electronic in, whether it be a power supply for one of the active Hilton, Goodrich, et al, pedals, or a Matchbox in front of a passive pot pedal. I think John McClung did a shootout test for this type of thing--you may want to search his name and see what comes up. One advantage of running a Matchbox is that you also have a preamp volume control. The Hilton is digital, so it will have a different tone from the Matchbox and pot pedal route. I like the simplicity of the Goodrich 120 pot pedal, but as Greg mentioned the stock pots do go bad quickly. If you replace the pot with one of the Dunlop pots that Tom Bradshaw sells it will last a very long time (I have had these in two Goodrich pedal for going on two years, and they still sound clean and good), and you won't have to deal with wires or batteries. As for the pot pedal tone suck thing, I think it's cool: EQ your amp for your pedal at what ever position you keep it in for picking, and then was you increase your volume pedal for sustain, solos, etc., you get more high end to go with the extra volume, thus adding to the dynamic of your volume swell. I can imagine that as volume pedal technology develops eventually there will be a digital pedal that will have an option to model the high end roll-off of a pot pedal, as some players desire this and prefer the tone of a pot pedal over a digital or active pedal. If one were to use the Hilton, etc., electronic pedal, I think a pot pedal is a smart thing to carry for back up. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 10:02 am
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The ear's frequency response curve is not a constant. It changes with amplitude. At higher volumes levels , it actually flattens out somewhat.
Based on that well know fact (see the link below) for the ear to hear a consistent tone at different volume levels, the pedal would HAVE to VARY its frequency response as the pedal position was changed.
At any rate, it's what sounds good that counts and that may well NOT be a pedal that has the same frequency response at all volume levels.
Now for the science behind this:
Human Hearing - Amplitude Senstivity!
Greg |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 11:00 am
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I suggest the passive Goodrich pedal. L120 is lower than 120, as L120 fits better under the steel guitar. You can get Dunlop pots from Tom Bradshaw and others.
If you want a built in buffer without an AC power cord you can use Goodrich L10K (I think H10K is too tall).
And if you don't mind plugging in AC and spending a bit more, for sound and features, the Telonics pedal is best IMO.
Last edited by Earnest Bovine on 2 Nov 2010 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 11:06 am
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Benjamin Wolfram
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 11:14 am
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| Here's another questions...since the Hilton plugs into a power supply will any power noise or interference come through the pedal and into your amplifier with it like other pedals that require wall power? Or is there some kind of noise gate or buffer inside it to prevent this kind of thing? |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 11:54 am
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| Cliff Kane wrote: |
| If you don't want the "slight tone suck as you roll it off," you are going to have to plug something electronic in... |
Or use a Goodrich H10K (or L10K) which works just fine on battery. |
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Mike Archer
From:
church hill tn
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 5:15 pm I prefer goodrich
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I reread Gregs post and I missed what he was saying
but I disagree I have a new goodrich pedal and
the Pot works great no noise or tone loss
the hilton is a fine pedal I dont like the wal wart part at all just my thoughts
and even if a pot does go out ill just replace it
you know its funny I never have had a pot go bad in any pedal....
if you dont like pots then get the hilton or some other pedal Mike 
Last edited by Mike Archer on 6 Nov 2010 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Simonis
From:
Stevens Point, WI USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 5:28 pm
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Ben,
I have both. Before the Hilton I just had the Goodrich (passive - no power..just a pot inside). I used the Goodrich with a Matchbox and had good results. I then bought a Hilton. The Hilton is smoother and consistent in tone all the way thru it's action. I have had no issues with any "noise" from the Hilton being plugged in either...it is very quiet. The Goodrich has a different tone to me, maybe a bit beefier sounding but less clarity. And as others here have said...replacing the pot in the Goodrich is a maintenance aspect.
At this point my Goodrich is being kept as a backup and I am strictly using my Hilton. I have read other posts on the forum where folks record with the Goodrich and play out with the Hilton. I guess whatever works for each of us.
My opinion - you won't be unhappy if you buy a Hilton (other than having to have another plug in). I have one of the older attached cord models that I bought off the forum here and it works great.
_________________
Dave Simonis
Fiddle: Zeta, Arthur Conner, many others.../Steel: GFI SD-10 Ultra.../Mandolin: Breedlove.../Guitar: Gibson, Fender, Taylor.../Amps: Peavey NV112, Evans FET 500.../Others: Hilton, Goodrich, Stereo Steel, Pendulum Pre-amp... |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Nov 2010 6:44 pm Re: I prefer goodrich
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| Mike Archer wrote: |
| Greg is right the new goodrich vol pedals have good pots that last a long time |
I think Greg is saying the opposite. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 3 Nov 2010 2:21 am
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I've been using Hilton's for about 4 or 5 years. I have never had a hum problem because it has a power supply.
No different than any other device/effect. If the unit and the power supply are designed correctly there will not be any hum/noise, etc generated or caused by the power supply. |
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Benjamin Wolfram
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 3 Nov 2010 2:59 am
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| Well good discussion...I think for now I'm sold on the Hilton. Sounds like a great pedal and I don't mind plugging something in so much...it also just sounds like it's more of a personal preference than anything and I think the Hilton looks and sounds like a good thing. |
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Chuck Snider R.I.P.
From:
West Virginia, USA - Morgantown, WV
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Posted 3 Nov 2010 7:09 am
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One comment regarding the Hilton. I would suggest you bite the bullet and get one of the newer ones which has the detachable power supply. I have two Hiltons, an older one (bought used) which has the attached power supply, and a newer one (bought new) which has the detachable power supply. The newer model is substantially lighter than the older ones. The newer one's power supply also takes up about 2/3 less space in a pac-a-seat. That may or may not be a big deal to some, but when adding it to the contents of a pac-a-seat it is worhty of weight consideration, as well as space requirements. You won't be disappointed in the Hilton, reliable and maintenance free.
-Chuck
_________________
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad. |
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Bobby Bowman
From:
Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Nov 2010 3:06 pm Volume Pedals
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Telonics,,,,the best of the best.
BB
_________________
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
http://www.bobbybowman.com |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 3 Nov 2010 3:18 pm
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I have a Telonics[my favorite]A Hilton low profile[excellent pedal],and a Goodrich light beam pedal which doesn't need an external power supply it has an AC cord coming out of the pedal,and it is an excellent one,Oh yeah and a Goodrich 120 which was great until it needed a new pot...If you can afford the Telonics get it,you'll be in heaven. 
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Robert Fleming
From:
Camden, NY
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Posted 4 Nov 2010 1:41 am Hilton or Goodrich
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I found a volume pedal on ebay real cheap and decided to take a chance on it. Glad I did. Its a DeArmand of all things and works great for me. Not sure of the model but its a photocell type not a pot.
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Stage One PSG, Old Deluxe Reverb,Peavey Session 500,Nashville Telecaster, Alvarez Yari DY62 Cedar Top acoustic, Alvarez AJ-60-12 acoustic 12 string, Larivee OM-3 Acoustic, Harmony MOTS lap steel, Magnatone MOTS lap steel, Gibson BR-9 lap steel, Andy Hintons coated picks, Ernie Cawby's amp stand, Sharp Covers Nashville Amp and Guitar covers |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 4 Nov 2010 2:04 am
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The DeArmond, Ernie Ball, Dunlop, etc pedals usually have a 250K pot instead of a 500K pot that ones designed for Pedal Steel Guitar volume pedals have.
The height and/or angle of the tread is also designed for someone that stands up rather than sitting down. |
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