ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 4 Oct 2010 3:58 pm

Arrrrgh!!!!!!!

Paul Frank Bloomfield · Post by **Paul Frank Bloomfield** » 4 Oct 2010 11:45 pm

Hallo Jimmy !
I've dug up the original order,invoice and
shipping order for Eric's Tom Brumley spec. ZB
which I believe is the one you got.
Hope it helps, unfortunately, there is no ref.
to the serial number as is on the other ivoices
I have for most of the ZB's imported into the UK
by Eric.
It's a mighty fine guitar, try and hang onto it !
All the best
Frank. Corfu

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 5 Oct 2010 1:07 am

Frank thanks for taking the time to put the invoices of steel,but i can`t read it my old eys`s are wearing out like the rest of me $:\$ ,but thanks for trying,i am grateful for your kindness.

Jim.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 5 Oct 2010 1:48 am

Greg,hope this helps and i hope you can understand what i`m trying to say,if you look at the pic of the changer you will notice the pull rods from the changer go to the b/cranks on each b/crank the rods go through a brass bush similar to the msa brass pull pins,what you do {i may be wrong but this the way i did it, if it is not the way to tune this system what is the right way please ?}.what i did was tune the longest pull on the end plate as normal,then tune the other string as near as pos using the allen screw on the end plate,if it wont come up to pitch even when you undo the allen screw because the other allen screw wont let it because it is up tight to the end plate ,what i did was undo the allen screw on the offending string a few turns so it was about 1/8" away from the end plate move the pull for the string by moving the pullpin up on the b/crank shaft to get more leverage so it pulls the string up to pitch or a little bit sharp then tune allen screw as normal.That is what i did when i changed the set up from Emmons to Day,and it seems to work great.Plays very smooth and in tune.But still no real help with where,when,who,used this system in the ZB guitars,is there a proper way to set them up,any other more detailed pics of this system? and what you think about it? i find it very easy to tune ect,but any other info would be great..Thanks..Jimmy.

Thanks to all you guy`s for taking the time to try and help the old boy..

Jimmy.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 18 Oct 2010 8:05 am

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 20 Oct 2010 1:57 pm

Well I'm back in the game. I sold my S-10 ZB a few years ago and always regretted it. Yesterday I received my "new" ZB. It needs some tweaking and mechanical parts and the right pickup and some cosmetic fix-ups, but I'm already playing it and remembering what I love so much about these guitars. I believe this one is a Scranton model. Hopefully I'll know more about it with Greg Jones' and others' help. Here are some pic's.

Brad Sarno

Joe A. Camacho · Post by **Joe A. Camacho** » 20 Oct 2010 2:31 pm

Hey Brad,
Let me know if that one doesn't work for you, I'm looking for a SD10 ZB. Imagine how good it's gonna sound with a ZB pickup!

thanks,
Joe

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 20 Oct 2010 3:14 pm

Yes, eventually this will have the right pickup. But for now I just gotta be able to play the thing.

Brad

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Oct 2010 8:10 am

Wow,

this ZB is a dream. Looks like it's revealing itself to be a late '67 to early '68 Scranton model. Still a bit of tweaking, but it's dialed in enuf to not be able to peel myself away from it. Even without yet having the right pickup, the guitar is incredibly toneful and stable.

Brad

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 26 Oct 2010 6:44 am

Brad you got yourself a keeper there. I am still amazed at string change how quick these guitars lock into tune. No other guitar I have ever had did this.
I think alot of the tone is the changer along with the maple and mass of the guitar. Kind of like a push pull.

Paul Frank Bloomfield · Post by **Paul Frank Bloomfield** » 26 Oct 2010 7:02 am

Hey Brad !
You gotta get the logo for the front to really round off a super steel ! and then a ZB triple coil pickup.
All the best
Frank. Corfu

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 26 Oct 2010 10:01 am

I think it might be an early Bakersfield ZB, based on the serial number. Mine is #0093 and looks exactly the same as yours Brad. In any event, it looks like a keeper.
Duncan

Chris Erbacher · Post by **Chris Erbacher** » 29 Oct 2010 12:35 pm

hey brad...i own your old zb...it was more blue when i got it a few years ago but still sounds great and plays well...more of a grey/blue/green color now depending on the light...i got it from henry nagle in santa rosa...

Bob Hamilton · Post by **Bob Hamilton** » 29 Oct 2010 1:09 pm

It makes perfect sense that a sound engineer would need to have a ZB, doesn't it?

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 29 Oct 2010 4:41 pm

Brad, I would love to hear what a ZB sounds like with a replacement pickup just out of curiosity. I've only heard them with stock pickups. Post a sound clip if you can or want.

Congrats on the new guitar!

Greg Lasser · Post by **Greg Lasser** » 29 Oct 2010 5:33 pm

Dave Zirbel wrote:Brad, I would love to hear what a ZB sounds like with a replacement pickup just out of curiosity. I've only heard them with stock pickups. Post a sound clip if you can or want.

Congrats on the new guitar!

I once installed a Sho-Bud pickup in one of my ZBs (sacrilege!

). It sounded slightly different but it still sounded like a ZB and not like a Sho-Bud at all.
A lot has been said about ZB pickups as to which is better, e.g. hand wound by **ZANE** as opposed to factory, and how many ohms for each tap etc.
But I still maintain that most of the characteristics of the sound of any particular brand/model of steel comes from the construction and metallurgy of the changer.

Aside from that it is the player and his style (and how he sets his amp) that makes the most difference of all.
Buddy Emmons always gets pretty much the same tone no matter what steel he is playing.
I once went to a Jeff Newman class and he played 3 or 4 different brands of steel just to demonstrate that they all sounded alike.

So a ZB with a replacement pickup would most likely sound like a ZB.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 29 Oct 2010 7:42 pm

Amazing! 2/3 of my original steel idols posting in the forum on the same day (Greg Lasser and Joe Goldmark)......only Lucky-O is missing.

Anyway, you can take what Greg says about ZB's to the bank. He is one of the best ZB mechanics anywhere.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 29 Oct 2010 10:02 pm

I figured most of tone comes from the changer but heard from some that the ZB is a special and unique pickup, on top of being a triple tap.

My D-10 ZB sounds a bit richer and darker than my S-10 ZB. Both sound mighty good.

Gee, I wonder what a ZB pickup would sound like on a Bud or Emmons....

Ian Miller · Post by **Ian Miller** » 29 Oct 2010 10:08 pm

Made my final payment on sweet lil' #1163 tonight, and I feel pretty darn swell about it!

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 29 Oct 2010 10:53 pm

I have to agree with Greg Lasser....the wood, castings, and changer has a great deal to do with the tone. The ZB pick-up is just icing on the cake to capture the whole ZB vibe. I havent tried anything but a ZB pick-up in a ZB so I really dont know how it would differ. I have, tried ZB pick-ups in other guitars and they didnt sound like ZB's, still sounded good but not the whole cigar so to speak.

By the way, Brads guitar is a Scranton built, late 67' early 68' ZB. We have exchanged quite a few emails and pictures. The changer, castings, pedal connectors date the guitar to Scranton. The serial number should be 4 digits. If it was built in Bakersfield it would be #0150 not just #150. All of Zane's Phoenix and Scranton guitar were either 10xx or 11xx for the numbers. I think this could very possibly be a special build. I just finished working on Norm Hamlets old D-11 for a fellow in Texas. The serial number is NH 1968. It appears to be a Scranton built guitar but not in any of the serial number records.

Greg

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 29 Oct 2010 11:11 pm

Greg, you're up too late. Put the screw driver down and go to bed.

Tom Karsiotis · Post by **Tom Karsiotis** » 30 Oct 2010 12:38 pm

I got this one on eBay and it seems stock except for one of the pedal holes looks as if a pedal was there at one time. The serial is 289S. The setup is standard ABC pedals and E to Eb on the knee lever. There are 3 holes for knee levers and I was wondering if it's possible to add a horizontal and vertical lever.

Greg Lasser · Post by **Greg Lasser** » 30 Oct 2010 1:59 pm

It's a ZB "student" model. That's what the 'S' in the serial number stands for. It was an economy model kind of like the Sho-Bud Mustang.

The Emmons company also came out with a student model around that time that was a real POS.

Why a vertical lever? An "up" lever is usually not added until you need to have a 5th knee lever as it's harder to operate than a side-to-side/horizontal one.

Tom Karsiotis · Post by **Tom Karsiotis** » 30 Oct 2010 4:26 pm

Greg Lasser wrote:It's a ZB "student" model. That's what the 'S' in the serial number stands for. It was an economy model kind of like the Sho-Bud Mustang.

The Emmons company also came out with a student model around that time that was a real POS.

Why a vertical lever? An "up" lever is usually not added until you need to have a 5th knee lever as it's harder to operate than a side-to-side/horizontal one.

I saw that there were 2 additional holes for something and I assumed one is for an additional left knee lever and the other would be for a vertical one. The current setup is fine for what I'm doing anyway. I'm going to have to get some extenders for the rods because its too low for me. It needs a good cleaning and a lube too. I'm coming from a 6 string Multi-Kord and this is a big step up.

I assumed it was a student model but they didn't cheapen the guitar where it mattered most. The pickup looks like the same as the professional model and the changer is pretty accurate.

Would anyone know what kind of wood is under the plastic cover and what plastic the top is? I'm guessing the plastic is vacuum formed acrylic or fiberglass.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 9 Nov 2010 6:57 am

Finally got the decal for my old Scranton model. Greg Jones dates it as a '67/'68. This guitar plays like a dream. Don't have the right pickup in there yet, but that's coming. It was in fairly good shape. Someday could use a full re-finish restoration, but really it's solid and in good shape. Mechanically, it plays incredibly well, all balanced, clean stops, smooth levers, really it's quite amazing. Not too heavy either now that's it's been made into a loafer.

Brad

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ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!

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