ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 23 Aug 2010 4:54 am

It says 7 come 11's on the bottom.

David Ball · Post by **David Ball** » 25 Aug 2010 4:04 pm

Tom's guitar looks amazingly like my Walters guitar--http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=190131

The C6 pickup, the changer, the ShoBud looking pedals, the woodwork. It all looks very similar. If you look at the inside of the Gumby peghead, they're really similar too. Smooth, not stepped, and the shape of the machine work at the tip of the peghead is nearly identical. Tom's guitar has staggered tuners at the top, but otherwise the pegheads look the same to me. My Walters has a very ZB looking fingerboard on it with the Spartan helmet fret markers. It's a nice guitar.

At any rate, could be that Tom has another one of Walters' instruments.

Dave

Tom Karsiotis · Post by **Tom Karsiotis** » 25 Aug 2010 5:08 pm

David Ball wrote:Tom's guitar looks amazingly like my Walters guitar--http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=190131

The C6 pickup, the changer, the ShoBud looking pedals, the woodwork. It all looks very similar. If you look at the inside of the Gumby peghead, they're really similar too. Smooth, not stepped, and the shape of the machine work at the tip of the peghead is nearly identical. Tom's guitar has staggered tuners at the top, but otherwise the pegheads look the same to me. My Walters has a very ZB looking fingerboard on it with the Spartan helmet fret markers. It's a nice guitar.

At any rate, could be that Tom has another one of Walters' instruments.

Dave

Dave,

That's almost a carbon copy of mine except mine is still a D10. When I saw the underside that clinched it. I just talked to Jess Hurt and he didn't know what it was but he said the former owner played in Monroe Michigan (just north of Toledo) often when he was alive, so it probably is a Walters.

Did the rods on the C6th neck hit your lap when you used the volume pedal? On mine they are too low and I will have to make some new pedal rods to raise the height.

Now that I know that it's not a ZB I'll get off this thread. Where's the Walters thread?

David Ball · Post by **David Ball** » 26 Aug 2010 1:44 am

Mine was already missing the C6 neck when I got it, so I don't know about the rods. But I have that problem on lots of guitars if I don't use a low profile volume pedal or a lift kit....

I bet that yours is a Walters though--nice looking guitar at any rate!

Dave

Bob I. Williams · Post by **Bob I. Williams** » 30 Aug 2010 12:06 pm

I have a ZB that was built in Phoenix. Underneath it says R.A.L. serial #11. It is a S-10 originally 6 on the floor. Now it is 4 with 2 knees. It had had several owners over the years, there is chip off the corner of the pick-up but sounds real good. It needs to be set up. enclosed are some pictures and would like suggestions and comments. Thanks in advance. BOB

Bob I. Williams · Post by **Bob I. Williams** » 30 Aug 2010 1:26 pm

I didn't get the pictures in. SORRY I'll keep trying

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 30 Aug 2010 6:25 pm

Greg good to see your smiling face here on the forum, Tony Glassman and Dan Tyack are here also if you have not seen their posts. We all owe you a lot for working with us many years ago getting us "hooked" on playing pedal steel. We are all still out there a little and loving it.

Larry Behm
503-722-7562

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 18 Sep 2010 2:02 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VI ... 0264355811

I have some literature and/or string packets with the Monrovia address on them. When were the Monrovia ...hours? Chronologically, I guess I mean.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 30 Sep 2010 11:19 am

I just brought this beautifull short scale ZB,it plays like a dream and sounds great,BUT i have never seen a ZB with this system so i thought i would ask on this thread if any of you guys could give me any info as to when it was made,i have been told it is the Tom Brumley custom model,all i know it is a real beauty.Thanks in advance.

JG

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 2 Oct 2010 3:02 am

I thought i would give it a try, because i was sure i would get some info on this steel on this thread,but it seems that it is a ZB that has no info about it`s machanics ect,or maybe it was a customised ZB guitar,all i know is it plays great,and easy to tune.Thanks anyway...

Jimmy G

Peer Desmense · Post by **Peer Desmense** » 2 Oct 2010 5:27 am

Hello Jimmy,

In 1977 I ordered a ZB custom through Dutch Importer Jan Visser and when it arrived, it appeared to have the same undercarriage system that is shown in your picture. Not the expected ZB system.
I was not only surprised, but at the same time quite happy with this because it proved to be a reliable and easy adjustable system.
Later on I sold this ZB to a fellow Dutchman who - at one time - took his ZB to the states where he met Tom Brumley. Naturally he asked wether Tom built this particular steel, but he denied.
So it's a very mysterious but nevertheless quality guitar!

Peer

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 2 Oct 2010 11:19 am

Thanks Peer,you have put my mind at rest,because i was begining to think my steel had been customized,but seing your pics has confirmed it is a genuine ZB,and i do agree the system is IMHO much easier to set up and tune than the normal ZB`s .Thanks again,but i would still like to try and find out the history of ZB`s with this system,but it seems no one seems to know,i hope i`m wrong.

Greg Lasser · Post by **Greg Lasser** » 2 Oct 2010 12:28 pm

Even if this guitar is customized, and I strongly suspect that it is, it appears to have the original ZB changers (hard to tell for sure from the photos) and that is important. I believe that more than any other factor - i.e. cabinet, pickups, etc. - it is the metallurgy and construction of the changers that give a steel its characteristic tone. I know that others will disagree with this but I think that without that ZB changer mechanism you can't call a guitar a ZB.

OTOH the standard transport/undercarriage mechanism on ZBs has always sucked. It is not easy to get properly adjusted and, with its yoke & turnbuckle system, it has always been very difficult to make changes on the pedals and knee levers.
Even Zane got rid of that system when he designed his BMI guitars. So if this is a customization job it's a good idea.

I can't tell from the photos about the pickup. That does contribute to the "ZB Sound" but IMO not as much as those changers.

All in all, it looks like a great guitar.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 3 Oct 2010 12:18 am

Hi Greg,yes my ZB has got the original changer,and pickup,as far as being customized i would love to know who did the system change,because with the steel in the relpy from Peer that makes two out there somewhere.

I an begining to think there is no one who knows anything about this system on a ZB ,but as i said before it is a big inprovment on the old system,it feels better and is so much easier to change and set up.

JG..

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 3 Oct 2010 12:39 am

Pic of the changer,and steel.

JG

Greg Lasser · Post by **Greg Lasser** » 3 Oct 2010 10:22 am

The changer looks to be authentic.

It looks like someone has ground off the "horns" from both the peghead and the changer plate. Is that what you mean by "short scale"?

If the horns have been chopped off then it would mean that the cabinet has also been shortened because there isn't even room for those projections.
If that is true, the case too would be custom unless the guitar is swimming around inside of it.

Hmmmm... It's very strange.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 3 Oct 2010 3:40 pm

This steel is a short scale ZB that has had the body shortend,the case has also been made for this steel.

It seems very strange that no one seems to know when or who put this kind of system on this ZB and the other one a few reply`s back ,i have been told that the late Tom Brumleys steel was a short scale it had shortend end castings and headstock,but acording to Peers reply Tom had nothing to do with this pull system.

Please there must be someone that knows who did the customizing to these steels,but who ever it was did a great job it is IMHO a big inprovment on the normal ZB system.and it has a great tone to boot.

Thanks..Jimmy.G.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 4 Oct 2010 3:21 am

I`m not sure if this will help,but the s/n of my ZB is...0695 ZB 2000.

Jimmy G

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 4 Oct 2010 3:38 am

I don't think the changer mount block and the headstock have been modified from the original, they look like a different design.

On my ZB, the headstock has a much wider spacing between the machine heads than on Jimmy's steel, and the changer casting on my steel is more rounded, not angular.

I would think that, when the guys at ZB changed to this short body design (not short scale, the scale length is still 24"), they also dumped the cross-strap mechanism and went to a more user-friendly, regular cross-shaft system.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 4 Oct 2010 6:36 am

Richard,i am a dim wit $:\$ oh well whats new!you are so right i did not make it clear when i said it was a short scale steel,i meant the body was shorter than the normal ZB,sory about that guy`s,i`m over 70 and i don`t know what i`m saying half the time,but i`m glad Richard pointed out my blunder.Thanks Mate.

Now maybe we might get some usefull info about this model.:ie year builder ect ect .

Jimmy G..

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 4 Oct 2010 7:28 am

This guitar was more than likely built between 77' and 85' when Tom Brumley was the sole owner of the ZB company in Texas. While in Texas they cut the guitars down and called them the new "Custom" model. They still built ZB's with the tail fins but called them the "Legend" model. While in Texas, they experimented with different pulling systems and this one could be one of those guitars. Tom's personal guitars, the cut down ones, all had the typical ZB undercarraige, some with a few modifications but still the singe/doubletree set up with turnbuckles for adjusting the pull rods. They changed keyheads at some point after this guitar. This one is open on the end and I havent seen too many like that. The tailpiece on these guitars were milled from a solid piece instead of from a casting. The serial number doesn't do much good without a copy of the invoice. The serial number scheme changed many times throughout the company's history. Basil Smith bought the company about 1985 and moved it to Indiana. The pulling system is similar to what he was doing until he passed away in 91'. It's possible that someone could have installed a new pulling system but, I doubt it since there were pics posted of another guitar with the same undercarraige that was ordered new. Jerry Fessenden
might be able to shed some light on this as he worked for Tom in Texas.

Greg

Andrew Buhler · Post by **Andrew Buhler** » 4 Oct 2010 7:40 am

Jimmy, if comb through our beloved ZB post you can find reference to other ZBs that have the same mechanism. I seem to recall an orange/blonde ZB D 11 with the same puller system that was posted years back. Quick question about the pull system on your guitar. Does the mechanism allow the pulls bottom out correctly (at the same time) against the endplate? I always thought that the yoke system was the only mechanism tha can accomplish that. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Check out this posting on the old forum as this guitar seems to have the same pullers as yours:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003855.html

Greg Lasser · Post by **Greg Lasser** » 4 Oct 2010 11:23 am

Andrew Buhler wrote:Quick question about the pull system on your guitar. Does the mechanism allow the pulls bottom out correctly (at the same time) against the endplate? I always thought that the yoke system was the only mechanism tha can accomplish that.

That's a very good question. I don't see any springs which would allow one change to bottom out while the other is still moving. How is this adjusted for on your guitar?

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 4 Oct 2010 2:40 pm

Please, Andrew, don't mention an orange/blonde ZB. I had an opportunity to buy a beautiful orange/blonde ZB twice and passed. I'm such an idiot.
However, I've seen may pictures of Mr. Brumley playing beautiful cut down ZBs that look very much like the ones posted above. So, I suppose, if it's good enough for Mr. Brumley...
Duncan

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 4 Oct 2010 3:57 pm

I've never owned a ZB, and have nothing to contribute to this thread. But in the interest of symmetry, I want to be poster #93339.

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