Do you practice too much?

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 30 Sep 2010 8:01 pm

In addition to sitting down and working out the various figures and forms that I need to have in hand for a particular artist or show, it always seems to help a lot to spend as much time as possible listening to the material when I'm away from the instrument. I always wondered if this worked for others as well, now it turns out there is something to it and science is on the track:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/ ... -practice/

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 30 Sep 2010 8:18 pm

Do you practice too much?

I think lots of listening and 'thinking music' is critical, but IMO, the answer is emphatically NO. I can never practice too much. I suppose if I didn't have anything else to do, I could do it to the point of burn-out, but in those periods of my life when I could shed to the brink of insanity, I never regretted it.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 30 Sep 2010 8:50 pm

This is a great topic! Thanks for the article, Dave.
I practice too much sometimes, and not enough at other times.

I personally feel that once the physical mechanics of playing are mastered, many songs can be learned by ear without an instrument.
It may take dozens, maybe hundreds of times before it works, but listening and visualizing are the critical elements. This incorporates visualizing yourself (or anyone for that matter) playing the music you are listening to. Watching a performance is the best way to really learn how its done, since both elements are present. How does a blind person learn a song? By listening to it first, of course. Then by playing it by ear. There is no visual reference, but a sense of how its actually played is in the brain. If you have the gift of sight, how its done can be viewed on YouTube, or, you can close your eyes and listen, imagining how its done before watching. Not a bad way to practice listening, if you can't practice playing. But, playing air steel is NOT the same as practice!

OK my 15 minutes are up, its time to go practice...

Clete

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 30 Sep 2010 8:57 pm

When my fingers start to hurt from the picks, or my hand starts to have a hard time holding the bar, then I've practiced too much. But after a short break, time to start again.

Russ Blake · Post by **Russ Blake** » 1 Oct 2010 12:45 am

Very interesting article. Thanks, Dave.

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 1 Oct 2010 5:42 am

Sometimes I really enjoy practicing. Other times I don't. But one thing I try to do before playing a gig is to practice a little. It helps me get my fingers limbered up and I seem to play better.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Oct 2010 6:46 am

Do you practice too much?

Nope
No danger of THAT happenin'

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 1 Oct 2010 6:59 am

In case you wish to read or reply to both threads, this same link was previously posted in 'Steel Players' 9/28/10.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=192508

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 1 Oct 2010 8:09 am

Sorry, Barry, I missed that one, I certainly didn't mean to step on your toes

My understanding is that the background sounds they are talking about in the study are not simply "noise" but specifically "relevent stimulus," which in our case would be the music that we are practicing. It doesn't take the place of motor-control development but can stimulate familiarity and ease of movement from the mental side.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 1 Oct 2010 9:36 am

Dave, no apologies needed, no offense taken.

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 1 Oct 2010 9:55 am

I've noticed this when teaching guitar. A student plays a passage over and over with the goal of creating muscle memory and also pain old memory of the piece. After so many reps things start to go down hill. We change to something else. It could be a little conversation for a minute or two. When we return to the reps the task the ability of the student has improved. Why is that. Some scientist attribute this to the sending/recieving neron funtion of the brain. It gets tired and stops making sense after so many reps. The quiet time helps to re-organize this brain funtion. Like phisical exercise where you stop but your system is still working out and benifits accrue while you are sitting, the same is true of practicing an insrument. The relevant stimuli adds to that effect. That's cool! Don

Jim Kennedy · Post by **Jim Kennedy** » 1 Oct 2010 10:35 am

When I was involved in educational psychology years ago the amount of time to perfect a skill, practice, was a real hot topic. It turns out that there are two critical components. One, obviously, is repetition. The other is a good nights rest. The amount of time spent any one time is not as critical as repetition over an extended period of time, days, weeks, or even longer. It turns out that the brain develops the neural pathways for new skills while we are sleeping. The things that we do during the day are sorted, categorized, stored and applied while we sleep. While practicing for several hours at a stretch can be personally satisfying, it is regular daily structured practice and good sleeping habits that will bring the best results.

Charley Wilder · Post by **Charley Wilder** » 1 Oct 2010 3:11 pm

I don't practice much at all. At my age I'm pretty satisfied where I am and probably with a lot of practice I'm not going to get much better anyway. Now I just get together with friends and go for it.
That having been said I still experiment when I play. I never could play the same thing twice. But a far as learning new techniques, approaches, etc, I'll leave that to you guys!

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 1 Oct 2010 4:53 pm

I practice a lot. One can never have enough practice time in order to succede, if they want to. I am always behind my steel, whenever I am not working by day job, which is actually at night. Because I want to do well. At one time I almost quit playing and was going to sell my gear and get out of it, because I was let go by a band. But a good friend of mine peruaded me not to. He informed me that in order to succede I would have to keep up the practicing, to keep my skills up, if I want to get with another band, or to be ready to record in studio.
Tommy Shown
SMFTBL

Tom Stolaski · Post by **Tom Stolaski** » 1 Oct 2010 6:57 pm

Many years ago I sat at my steel and practiced the same lick for four hours straight. The next day my hands went into shock. I could not move my fingers. I probably should have mixed up my practice session with a few scales or something different to avoid the strain on the same area in my hands. You learn from your mistakes. I do have to admit that I know that lick very well and will never forget it. To play it today I still have to warm up a bit before I try to play it.

Alexa Gomez · Post by **Alexa Gomez** » 1 Oct 2010 10:08 pm

I feel like practice is for those who lack confidence. Thus, I attempt to increase my comfort level each day I play my lap steel, usually about four hours altogether. I only rehearse actual songs, never scales or any other such boring exercises. When the tune gets to where I know it so well it's sort like playing a cover, I'm there. I play a set of ten, or so, tunes daily, running down the list until I can execute each flawlessly, at which point that tune drops off the list and another takes its place. I encourage my students to do the same which really seems to be working for them based on their progress.

The article makes a valid point about those who practiced first seeing the best results from simply listening yet, for me, I simply must play my guitar everyday, not just to keep my chops, but because I just love playing.

Just my two cents.

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 2 Oct 2010 4:50 am

Words fail me!.......Bill Hankey, where are you?

Allen Kentfield · Post by **Allen Kentfield** » 4 Oct 2010 2:07 pm

The hardest part for me about practicing is getting started. Once I get started, it's hard to stop.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 5 Oct 2010 7:36 pm

Easy Nic, we're not gonna go there.

It is not my intention at all to denigrate practice time, but rather to point out this interesting scientific corroboration of what many of us believe we have observed, 1) that over-saturation can lead to creative numbness and 2) that filling our minds with whatever we wish to master through both focused and and subliminal listening can be productive even when we are away from the instrument.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 5 Oct 2010 8:24 pm

Alexa Gomez wrote:I feel like practice is for those who lack confidence....

I do too

Practice is for doctors.
When I'm feeling insecure I just call it "warming up".

But seriously, practice means try. If I am performing and try something new in a solo perhaps, you could say I am practicing something new.
If you dont feel the need to improve on your playing, or that you are good enough, then I can see how seldom practicing comes into play. Its similar to professional musicians who play together (often just after meeting each other for the first time) in a live performance with little or no rehearsal. Rehearsal is group practice folks. Same thing. You either want to perfect a show by rehearsing, or maintain the element of spontaneity by not rehearsing.

Clete

Bobby Hearn · Post by **Bobby Hearn** » 5 Oct 2010 8:51 pm

There's a big difference between learning songs, and learning how to play your instrument.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 5 Oct 2010 9:54 pm

Exactly Bobby,
Like any number of moderate guitar players with a handful of chords (and maybe a capo) that can play just about any song.

Clete

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 5 Oct 2010 10:52 pm

Dave G.

..... My comment was aimed at the remarks made in the post by Alexa Gomez..... Enough said.

I had the privilege to record the great Canadian Bass player, Dave Young, a few times when he was in South Africa. We had a very interesting conversation on this subject. Asked whether he enjoys touring, he remarked that he's not much for it, as it impedes his practice time which is normally between 6 to 8 hours daily.
I suppose the term 'Practice' has different meanings to it. Maybe the question should be " what is my aim, or ultimate goal, in playing an instrument?". Should your aim be to become the best you can be, it would largely depend on expanding your knowledge, and using that knowledge as a base for constructive practicing.
A while back someone on this forum had a great quote :"Perfect practice makes Perfect"......

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 5 Oct 2010 11:14 pm

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 5 Oct 2010 11:57 pm

I recall reading a post on the Forum that Buddy Emmons had been observed backstage at the Opry playing harmonics for four hours.
I find that I do'nt notice immediate benefit from practice but after having done some serious runs and licks during the week days I suddenly do things I never even thought of when I am out with the band at the weekend.
Best regards
Billy