Volume and Tone controls

[Micheal Harvey]

Hey guys I am new to the forum and to steel guitar playing. My question is does it matter whether or not there is a volume or tone control knob on the steel guitar if I have a good volume pedal? Thanks for your help.

[Mike Harris]

Besides giving you the convenience of being able to tweak the tone at the guitar rather than solely at the amp, the tone knob is often used to great effect in the country recordings of the 40's and 50's. If you have any desire to play that style you are definitely going to want a tone knob on your guitar. If you're not planning to play that style you might be okay without it.

[Micheal Harvey]

Playing a sacred steel style E7 th. Tuning. Can I have one added if desired?

[George Piburn]

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[Micheal Harvey]

Thanks George I have a Hilton VP which answers the volume question my major concern is tone control and how big a factor that would have. Opinion and experience are great indcaters

[Tom Karsiotis]

George is correct about the tone being in the hands and how you attack the strings. A passive tone control grounds a specific frequencies to ground and you lose a lot with this old time circuitry. Today we have amps with active tone circuits and equalizer pedals to give us a greater tonal range than before. I would suggest you use a graphic equalizer to get the sound you want and vary it by the method George suggests. Picking farther from the bridge will sound different than next to it and it's a lot easier than fooling with a knob.

[George Piburn]

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[Lynn Oliver]

...If you go with full up then there is basically no effect...

George, my CruzTone has a bypass switch for the controls, and there is quite a difference between full up and bypassed, particularly with the highs. If you think about it, a 250K tone pot full on in parallel with a 1M amp input loads the pickup with about 200K. Without the tone pot it is loaded with 1M.

[Fred]

Playing a sacred steel style E7 th. Tuning

Some sacred steel players ride the tone knob with with the ring or fourth finger while their picking. Done well it produces an incredibly vocal sound. Listen especially to the playing of Darrick Campbell for this.

I love having volume and tone tone controls on the guitar even when using pedals.

Fred

[George Piburn]

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[Ray Montee]

JERRY BYRD was an expert using the volume pedal.... and his harmonic solo's using the pedal is a perfect example. His skill allowed him to deliver a consistant 'sound' without the unwanted plucking sound of a missed/or blundered harmonic attempt.

He also was able to play a seamless single string solo like angelic voices or violins.........by using the volume control.

He also used it quite effectively when making a three note slide DOWN the neck from high to low and/or up the neck has he did many times during tasteful back-up fills.

More can be learned about how to use the volume pedal and tone control knob.......simply by listening to the 'back-up' on the many songs that JERRY recorded with a nameless army of vocalist......

[Tom Karsiotis]

If you are going to use the passive tone control circuit then it is a good idea to run the leads for the capacitor out of the guitar so you can experiment with different capacitors to get the sound you want. Try caps with values from .01 to .05 mf and see which one sounds best and try different types too. As said before use the audio taper type pot not the linear taper ones. While you're in there add a bypass switch.

I used my pinky around the volume control on my Multi-Kord for years because I was using both feet on the pedals. On the lap steel and now the ZB Custom I use a volume pedal and it frees up my right hand for where I pick and how I block. Jerry Byrd had his wired in reverse so it worked backward from the standard pedals. One of these days I'm going to have to rewire mine to see how that works. Has anyone tried that?

[Ray Montee]

I don't intend to speak for a fellow Forumite however if my memory serves me correctly, I believe it was Rick Aiello that rewired his specifically like Jerry Byrd.

But then again, I could be wrong.

[Steve Ahola]

Steel guitars of all varieties tend to have their pickups very close to the bridge which makes for a very bright tone, at least when compared to the same pickup mounted further away. In the days before hum-canceling pickups a bright pickup toned down with a fat tone control was a very basic form of noise reduction. So I personally consider a tone control to be a necessity. Two is even better. <g>

I just put in a passive mid cut-mid cut/boost control on the Rogue EA-3 I've been rebuilding. Cutting the mids can sweeten up the tone while boosting*** them can make the sound much thicker. I attached the schematic I drew up although I have been inserting an 82k resistor between the 1.5H inductor and ground (without that resistor it can sound kinda weird with the pot set to 0). For a mid cut control don't use a push-pull pot and eliminate the .001uF cap and 1.1M resistor at the top of the drawing. I don't recommend using just the mid cut/boost control unless you can toggle it off because there is no neutral position which doesn't load down the sound too much.

As for caps and pots, I really like the tone switch on George's Stealth models to toggle between a .022uF and .047uF tone cap, it really makes a big difference in the tone as you sweep it up and down. As for the values of the tone pot start off with a 250k audio pot and see how you like the range from 0 to 10. If it works for you leave well enough alone, otherwise you might want to try a 500k pot or even a 100k pot, and with linear tapers instead of audio.

As for whether the volume control should be audio or linear I think it depends on whether you are most interested in the swell as you increase the volume from 0 (audio) or interested in more control over the volume as you turn it down from 10 (linear). You can experiment with 500k or 250k pots to see which one works better for you. My 1948 Gibson Century 6 has a 500k reverse audio pot for the volume control which gives me even more control when turning the volume down from 10. Woohoo!

Bypassing the tone control is another option that you might like. Fender has been using "Delta" tone pots for a few years now which are no load when turned all of the way up to 10. If you can dial in the tone that you want at your amp that has some advantages- like reducing the noise level a little bit. But after using them for awhile I prefer having the load from a tone control- it seems to mellow out the sound in a good way especially on lap steel.

I'm no expert- I just get carried away when I start talking about these things. <g>

Steve Ahola

P.S. I never could get the hang of using a volume pedal with a lap steel in my lap- the steel keeps moving up and down. <g>

*** Passive controls can't actually boost the mids but they can cut the treble a lot and the bass a little bit so that the effect is roughly the same.