IMHO The Top 10 Things that ruined modern music

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Aug 2010 10:19 am

all of the "blanks" in the Jelly Roll Morton song are the f word.

I think it is crystal clear that there is a continuum between the earliest ages of jazz and modern hip hop like Emminem. Just because this stuff wasn't being recorded, doesn't mean it wasn't being played and I think it played an important part of the social artistic medium of black music through the ages.

As far as "offensive" is concerned, I need only point to the "coon" recordings of early hillbilly artists of the 30's.

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 26 Aug 2010 10:25 am

The song probably couldn't get airplay now, not because of lyrics, but too many verses won't fit into the 3-4 minute hit song format!

admin · Post by **b0b** » 26 Aug 2010 10:28 am

They'd play it on Sirius XM.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 26 Aug 2010 10:28 am

nr 1 till 10 :

Video killed Music.
It's more about the looks then the skills these years.

JJ

Tom Karsiotis · Post by **Tom Karsiotis** » 26 Aug 2010 12:26 pm

You older steelers probably remember WLAC Nashville 1510 on your AM dial. We could get that as far north as Detroit. While local stations were playing Pat Boone we were listening to Howlin' Wolf. The word passed around that there was a "cool" radio station at 1510 AM and kids were hearing Carl Perkins and the rest of the gang at Sun records. I think the internet and Youtube are providing the same thing for today's kids. As far a Rap goes, It's the daily news on the street. Of course you can't understand it, you're not supposed to. If my parents knew what Lavern Baker's "Jim Dandy To The Rescue" was about they would have had a fit.

What distresses me more is that people have stopped making their own music. I learned about Jimmie Rogers from my friend's father who had an old Harmony archtop and sang his tunes for us. My father played until he passed away and I had two Uncles that both played Hawaiian guitars. It's not that hard - there are only 12 notes.

I'm the guy that said technology is not your friend but I don't think a pedal steel would sound too good with cat gut strings. I should have put a smiley face after that one.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 26 Aug 2010 2:19 pm

Hip hop has actually permeated nearly all forms of popular music with heavy dance beat and extremely inventive rhymes, internal puns, word play.

Bill, I'll admit to only "cursory" experience with the genre, however, would you have us believe that any of the following examples are, as you put it, "extremely inventive rhymes?"

"Never let me slip, cause if I slip, then I'm slippin."
Dr. Dre, "Nuthin' But a 'G' Thang"
Album: The Chronic

Don't try to treat me like I ain't famous My apologies, are you into astrology Cause I'm, I'm tryin to make it to Uranus
Kanye West, "Gettin' It In"

"Sometime y'all get crimey crimey, grimy grimy But those with a tiny hiney they get whiny whiny."
Cam'Ron, "5 Boroughs"
Album: The Corruptor Soundtrack

"I'm hungry for cheese like Hungry, Hungry Hippo."
Project Pat ("Ballers")
Album: Ghetty Green

"If you don't bring back my m****f*****n money or my m***f****n dope, you can forget about Christmas n***a, cause you ain't gon even see New Years."
Master P ("Do You Know")

"I like the way ya a** move to the beat You a freak, that's somethin' you can be."
J-Kwon ("Show Your A**")
Album: Hood Hop

"Young, black, and famous, with money hanging out the anus."
Mase ("Can't Nobody Hold Me Down")
Album: No Way Out

Now you know that I'm the Queen of Miami. All that loud talkin, lyin, save that sh*t for your mammy. Sounds like "blah, blah blah, blah bla blah-blah," I'm like uh-huh (uh-huh) okay (okay), Whassup (whassup) SHUT UP!"
Trina ("Here We Go")
Album: Glamorest Life

and so on .....

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 26 Aug 2010 4:08 pm

Number one should be karaoke,the WORST enemy a working musician could have,

YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Aug 2010 7:32 pm

Barry, if you had provided all the lyrics and links to the song, like I did, I could answer your question. Come on...do you really think pulling a few lines out of context means anything?

Dude, would you like me to pull some shit country lyrics for you? please.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Aug 2010 7:32 pm

and I didn't say sheep.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Aug 2010 7:39 pm

Btw, you sort of side stepped the lyrics and links I posted. I would in seriousness like to know your opinion. I personally find the lyrics and the lyrics tied to the beat and lyrics and beat tied to the video pretty compelling art. If you can read that, and hear that, and see that, and not be moved... then we will have to agree to disagree and leave it there.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 26 Aug 2010 11:08 pm

Dave Mudgett wrote:...but I think the 70s will always be best known for the resulting corporate rock and disco.

Ah yes, corporate rock.

Examples of corporate rock tunes I can remember are:

Come Sail Away - Styx
More Than A Feeling - Boston
Hot Blooded - Foreigner
Hold The Line - Toto
Magic Man - Heart
Keep On Loving You - REO Speedwagon
Eye Of The Tiger - Survivor
We Built This City - Jefferson Starship
Carry On Wayward Son - Kansas

The bands I played in neither had the talent or the equipment to play music that sounded so polished, so I tried to avoid it as best I could. The only band I had any respect for was Boston, and that was only because of Tom Scholz's musical genius.

Guy Cundell · Post by **Guy Cundell** » 27 Aug 2010 2:49 am

<> off topic

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 27 Aug 2010 6:29 am

Bill M., you're saying that hip-hop lyrics are "extremely inventive rhymes." I opined that they weren't exactly Shakespeare, and tried to provide some actual examples to validate my opinion. On this point, we agree to disagree, and I'm leaving it there.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 27 Aug 2010 6:34 am

Actually, hip hop lyrics, with their internal rhyming structure, off rhymes, word play and word invention, and subject matter are very much Shakespearean.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Aug 2010 7:20 am

I actually like modern music. There are things that I don't like, of course, but that's true of all eras. I don't like opera, for example. If I were alive in 1900, I might say that vocal training is ruining modern music, or that the banjo is ruining our best songs.

There is plenty of great music being performed today, probably more than at any time in history. Music is everywhere. Some of it isn't so good, but a lot of it is a triumph of creativity.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 27 Aug 2010 9:23 am

b0b, you are the Prince of Nebulousness ....

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 28 Aug 2010 1:35 pm

Ditto on the electronic tuners. I have said this many times that the best description ever written was by the makers of the Korg tuners many years ago.
What Korg said was, an electronic tuner was to quickly retune to a tuning you decided on your own was an intune sound.

How did the great mucicians ever tune before they came out? Try and imagine some one trying to play fiddle/violin who does not have the ear to tune
to a tuning fork,pitch pipe,ect or best to first tune the A string to A 440 by ear which was the accepted concert pitch when i started learning violin about the same time fire was discovered.

And perfect pitch,or a good ear is somethiong one is born with not leaned far as i can find out.

Justin Jacobson · Post by **Justin Jacobson** » 28 Aug 2010 5:59 pm

I have to say Bill is completely on point about hip hop and rap. Some of the most inventive rhymes and plays on words and phrases I have heard have come from artists in this genre.

Some of my personal Favorites

Rakim: (who is a poet and has a fantastic sense of meter and rhythm, actually one of the top five rappers to be acquainted with if you are at all interested in good lyrics and songs.) from Follow the Leader

Stop buggin', a brother said, dig em, I never dug 'em
He couldn't follow the leader long enough so I drug 'em
into danger zone, he should arrange his own
Face it, it's basic, erase it, change ya tone
There's one R in the alphabet
It's a one-letter word and it's about to get
More complex from one rhyme to the next

Now to be fair many of the lyrics work a million times better with the rhythm of the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLokvR5UsQQ
so there it is

I still believe that Public Enemies "bring the noise" might be one of the top 50 songs ever. the whole thing is fantastic; rhythmically, lyrically, and performance wise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvy7MWjfVPE

outkast would be another I would point out as being fantastic lyricists. And they have alot of singing in them as well. I mean not many people can say they wrote a pop song that is arguably on par with the Beatles (Hey Ya, it is a perfectly executed pop song) here are a few examples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYxAiK6VnXw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvKs133Udmk

CeeLo green, one of the main forces of the southern hip hop group Goodie Mob is easily recognized as one of the few fresh faces bringing soul style vocals to modern music with Gnarls Barkley and his solo career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtkr5m_2K5A
(Keep in mind this is a rapper)

And if you just want fantastic lyricism check out the GZA (Wu-tang Clan member) his album Liquid Swords is a classic all the way through, just like the first Wu Tang Clan album.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyt0tAwDAPc (GZA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl6jwab3HWk (Wu Tang)

And if you want fantastic singers in hip hop there is no way anyone could not count Lauren Hill in there, she nearly topped Roberta Flack with the version of "Killing Me Softly" she did on the fugees album.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KpeCk6NyZU
I mean how can you like music and not get chills listening to this

There is fantastic hip hop out there, just like there is horrible hip hop out there. In the same way there is horrible Country or bluegrass out there. Music doesn't have to be a specific genre to be fantastic. I feel lucky that I appreciate nearly all genres of music and can recognize fantastic musicianship when I hear it. i'm sure you guys can too, but maybe you haven't taken any time to check out this kind of music, your loss. But let's not say there isn't talent there or that it has ruined modern music.

There is even room for steel in hip hop. I recently started playing steel with an experimental hip hop group in chicago and it is fantastic. It's all about getting out of the box steel has put itself into over the years. It has so many possibilities outside of the country music it has been pigeon holed into.

And before I end this I will let you know my all time favorite rap lyric comes from another fantastic artist (also one of NPR's top 50 voices http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =128916682) with his lyric:

"Honeys play me close like butter plays toast."
I have always thought that was one of the more clever rhymes I had ever heard. And the whole song is fantastic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNPIOi2LiQk

Disclaimer: Some of the aforementioned youtube links may have swearing in them, so if you are offended by that, ignore them and take my word for it, or not

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 28 Aug 2010 9:34 pm

Just one question to consider:
If someone can't even tune by ear, how could they ever hope to learn to play steel, violin or any other fretless instrument? I still maintain that every one should learn to tune by ear even if they use an electronic tuner most of the time.
Dom $:\$

admin · Post by **b0b** » 28 Aug 2010 10:19 pm

You don't need to tune anything to play rap or hip-hop music. The synths and loops are all pre-tuned, and the vocalists rarely have to hit any particular pitch.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 28 Aug 2010 11:35 pm

There is even room for steel in hip hop. I recently started playing steel with an experimental hip hop group in chicago and it is fantastic. It's all about getting out of the box steel has put itself into over the years. It has so many possibilities outside of the country music it has been pigeon holed into.

Justin,
I am sure that the E9th neck with the pedals and knee levers was designed to play country music. So it wasn't pigeonholed in, but gradually developped to accomodate country music.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 29 Aug 2010 5:24 am

Well heck, as long as y'all gettin' all wordy here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magaz ... XFUxhn+euw

Don't worry, it's only five pages and I didn't understand it neither.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 29 Aug 2010 12:40 pm

Justin,

Thanks for those links. The Lauryn Hill track is killer, for sure. All the tracks were great.

There is a lot more to say on this subject ...

someone else will have to say it.

Bill

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 4 Sep 2010 1:51 pm

IMHO, everyone sounds alike. What happened to the days when all of the singers had their own unique style? Like George and Tammy. The local radio stations are bought up by CORPORATIONS, i.e. CLEAR CHANNEL, They have some suits in L.A. and New York influincing Nashville, telling the music directors at the local level what to play. I did a session last night,and during the breal. The producer and I talked about how the radio stations back in the day would play instrumentals from either the band that toured with artist or one of the musicians. A guy I work with,was talking to me about doing an album of old Gospel songs on steel. I told him it would not sell.
Tommy Shown
SMFTBL

Orville Johnson · Post by **Orville Johnson** » 4 Sep 2010 7:30 pm

Uggghh...Grok here...from caveman times...me used to bang two rocks together, make beautiful music...but these kids nowadays, they take bamboo stick, cut holes, blow in it, make godawful noise!!

They destroy Grok's music! Grok must whine! Everything better when things are like Grok do it!

It ain't no different from the caveman times (hat tip to Danny Barnes' song "Caveman")

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