Pedal Steel Is Dead

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 18 Aug 2010 6:07 am

I play the clubs where the kids go. alt country and rock. 300 people at my last show, not one of knew what the instrument was. They all love it , but none of em know what it is. Most call it "the slide". The ladies are the best. This mysterious and beautiful sounding thingamabobby is a total chick magnet.

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 18 Aug 2010 11:23 pm

. . . "the slide". The ladies are the best. This mysterious and beautiful sounding thingamab0bby is a total chick magnet.

The "keyboard thingy" is alive and well!

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 19 Aug 2010 12:12 am

A producer told me, he love the sound of power chords on steel guitar as much as the electric guitar. He also said that the steel guitar is the new organ because of its versatility to all forms of music......I agree with the later statement because its sound fits nicely into every style of music.

Paul

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 19 Aug 2010 12:32 am

I spend hours every day working on jazz steel - to me, the pedal steel is not only alive, but has started whispering to me in my sleep...

When I talk to the musicians I work with about taking up the pedal steel, especially my jazz brethren, they all mention how much they love the instrument, and when am I going to bring it to the gig?

I think the pedal steel is alive, and growing, at least in my corner of the world

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 19 Aug 2010 1:29 am

The steelguitar dictated my path of life, from relationships, love, house, friends, money, knowledge of music and taste.
It can't be just a hobby, for that, the instrument is to complicated to master.
What turn should my life have taken without it?

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 19 Aug 2010 2:38 am

What turn should my life have taken without it?

Bus boy at Cracker Barrel?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Aug 2010 4:54 am

Franklin wrote:A producer told me, he love the sound of power chords on steel guitar as much as the electric guitar. He also said that the steel guitar is the new organ because of its versatility to all forms of music......I agree with the later statement because its sound fits nicely into every style of music.

Paul

they do sound great. The pedal steel is a formidable rock instrument

In terms of predicting the future, its interestng and fun to look back. i recall when people were predicting the death of the regular guitar. It was thought that turntables would be the new 'instrument' of choice and at one point, turntables were outselling guitars in Japan. I recall when classical musicians worried about being replaced by synthesizers. To some very lesser extent these prophecies did fullfill themselves, but to no where near the chicken little fears of their originators.

I see more of whats already happening for the future. psg into a wider variety of genres and a move toward universal. but then my record on predictions is abysmal so who knows?

Dennis Ellerbee · Post by **Dennis Ellerbee** » 19 Aug 2010 7:20 am

I am playing in a four piece band, and I'm the lead player. The band consists of drums, bass, and acoustic guitar. I play the majority of the lead breaks except for a couple of harmonica breaks by the lead singer. There is no lead guitar in the band. People eat it up. They love the sound of the steel. The more the steel guitar is heard, the more people like its versatility. I have not played recently when someone did not come up to me after the show with questions about the instrument. Steel lives on!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Aug 2010 7:26 am

Franklin wrote:A producer told me, he love the sound of power chords on steel guitar as much as the electric guitar. He also said that the steel guitar is the new organ because of its versatility to all forms of music......I agree with the later statement because its sound fits nicely into every style of music.

I just did a session last night that included a Hammond organist. I was struck by how similar the tonal palette was between the steel and the organ, especially when chording. I had to adapt my playing quickly so we'd stay out of each others' sonic space. But, in the end, we sounded great together, especially when trading fours.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Aug 2010 7:31 am

I believe, but I'm not positive, that much of what sounds like organ on the first(?) Poco record (You Better Think Twice, Hurry Up,... ) was actually Rusty Young playing through a Leslie.

The story I heard was that the producer was concerned that the album was sounding too country and suggested the Leslie to 'camouflage' the steel guitar.

Not sure if that's true or not.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Aug 2010 7:32 am

Rusty definitely played his steel through a Leslie. That part, at least, is true. Don't forget, "El Tanto de Nadie"! Sheesh!

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Aug 2010 7:37 am

Don't forget, "El Tanto de Nadie"! Sheesh!

Yeah buddy!!! That whole record changed my musical bent in a large way.

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 19 Aug 2010 8:26 am

Here's my own take on the D-10/U-12 debate and similar debates... Aside from which can do what, the reason for the actual debates themselves probably has a lot to do with guys trying to reassure themselves that they picked the right one.

Most will agree that different formats suit different players' needs and styles better, but as for trends, it seems to me that we'll see a variety out there for a long time to come. But...

Things might move in an SD-10 direction for a while, particularly because a lot of the newcomers to the instrument have rock roots, and as they dabble into country music (or steel in either a more "vintage" or "throwback" rock sound, or some other genre) they largely go for E9th because that neck seems to eclipse other genres more than C6th. A lot of those guys apparently don't feel compelled to take it all the way to C6th. However...

I bet double neck will always be around for at least one simple reason: it's the double-barrel shotgun! Some people who will never use the back neck will still buy them because it makes them feel more like the real deal, less like a rookie. Gotta have the "big guns" you know!

Then again, the SD-10 trend I'm hypothesizing might have a lot to do with what Paul said about players finding all the intervals they need on any neck. E9th probably just satisfies the needs of many players (especially if they had no C6th available in the beginning of their playing career).

Anyway, it seems to me that interest in country music in the Nashville sense, or Texas music, or other music that uses steel is on the upswing because of the growing variety, experimentation and atavism in today's music (in this age of "throwback" where old is new, more so than any other time period from what I see). On the other hand, steel might end up being more diluted in its abundance because a lot of newer players don't seem to be digging into it as deep. This might be because it's a fish in a bigger pond as its territory gets broader, having fewer chances to express itself, and so many new players do merely what seems to be needed and don't realize how far they could go with it. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but anyhow...

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 19 Aug 2010 8:57 am

Franklin wrote:I can tell you firsthand Nashville is recording some of the best traditional steel guitar music on the planet every year......Informing the traditional Country fans as to its whereabouts is the obstacle the business is trying to overcome........Paul

I'll take your word for it, but I can say that whoever is in charge of keeping this such a secret from the public is really good at what he does. He should work for the CIA.

I don't think steel is dead. I think the music that features steel as a major part of the sound has contracted some kind of disease that has caused it to be quarintined.

Paul, you're fortuniate that your career has spanned over the real country traditional sounds to the new country recordings of today, and you've been good enough and smart enough to adapt to keep yourself on top. There's a lot of us that choose to do something else for a living rather than participate in the evolution. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking you, I admire you for recognizing how to keep it working to your advantage and you've be quite successful at it. There has to be a lot of self satisfaction in knowing that you can walk into any studio and play anything they throw at you, and do it well.

I know what you mean about being in the videos. I don't expect the Chippendales to be calling me anytime soon either.

John H. McGlothlin · Post by **John H. McGlothlin** » 19 Aug 2010 9:02 am

I'll voice a little bit on the D10 vs the Universal. I belive it will always be 50/50 because there are as many great players on both types of guitars and it is because of all the great pedal steel guitarists and especially Paul Franklin who have drawn so many people to take interest in the steel guitar. I for one have been amazed at the C6th work Paul that you were doing on the George Strait recordings back in the mid 80s. I know that your steel guitar work will draw younger musicians to want to play that tuning as well as the E9th. The Universal tuning will continue on because of the different voicings it creates and the convience of getting both E9 and C6 sounds from the one tuning. I may not be around much longer but as long as there is music the pedal steel guitar will be around forever.

Kenny Martin · Post by **Kenny Martin** » 19 Aug 2010 10:05 am

Paul wrote:
Here's my take....we started taking gigs in our early 20's...Look at the similar age of our generation...Mike Jones, Mike Smith, Mike Johnson, Tommy White, Randy Reinhard, Terry Crisp, Jack Smith, Gary Carter, Randy Beavers, Robbie Springfield, Bruce Bouton, Steve Hinson, Russ Pahl, and on and on...For our generation to emerge, some older players must have lost the chance at a good gig.....I remember how young and excited we all were to get great gigs! I remember you getting the ET gig at a young age, Jack Smith took the Anderson gig, I took the Tillis gig, and Jerry Brightman became a Buckaroo...We were all young and fearless.....I believe the road is really suited for the young, less settled musicians.......When I look at our age group, all of us, who were choosing our career paths back then were about 5 to 10 years apart, at the most.....
Paul[/quote]

Wow who am i to even consider making a comment but here ya go!
I have played since 1969 when i started! Through the years i have learned from many going all the way back and to current!
Reading this paragraph Paul wrote made me think about changes, impacts and influences! I'm fairly new to the forum so i'm not qualified to even talk about what changes it has went through but i can talk about the changes steel guitar has had in my small part of the world.
Paul mentions being in their 20's and basically talking about the youngs guns during that time!
The one thing that stands out the most is how much the older players developed them as players but with a different style and or way of playing!

Paul, Tommy, Bruce, Mike, Terry, Randy and so on picked up every lick they could from the pro's as well as developed their own. They all play the signature licks of Emmons, Myrick, Hughey, Green and so on but they also have their own. I bet if you ask them to play one it would take about a second for you to hear it!

This is not happening in the new generation of steel players! I don't hear about the new "Young Guns" like i did through the years. I'm 51 years old this month and i can only think of a few new players setting the trend. Maybe its because i live in South Carolina!

Randall Currie, Tyler Hall and Travis Toy are just a couple that i can think of that seem to be "Young Guns" these days! There's nobody settin it on fire like the days of Billy Bowman, Pete Drake and Wiggins that brought out Emmons, Green, Myrick, Jernigan, Wallace, Hughey, and after that brought us White, Franklin, Garrish, Bouton, Reid and so on!

Where are they at? I feel i keep up but maybe i'm not!

It is a gift to me that you guys are still playing the sessions and producing steel guitar in "Real Country"! Paul Franklin, Tommy White, Terry Crisp, Bruce Bouton, Mike Johnson and so on are still getting the job done!

I'm unsure that there is going to be a new generation that can take over at the level that the last three generations have done and maintain the integrity of steel guitar that has been displayed at the level it has been for the past three generations!

The new players on most of what i see and hear never get to play! They twinkle and play the power chords but where are the lead rides that make us rookies buy the CD and rush home to try and learn it?

Paul, you and Brent Mason made AJ's signature sound! I play Tele and have all my life and i know it's Brent when i hear it! I know it's you when you play and i know it's Tommy White when he plays!
Todays steel doesn't have that! There are no famous lead rides coming out other the Randall Currie with Brad! We are lucky he let's him turn it lose!

Steel has changed and the pop rock is ok with steel in it! I play Guns & Roses on steel in clubs every other weekend! Don't have a problem getting paid to do it!

Today's country is ok but i can't find a cut that has any steel rides or for that matter guitar rides that is just killin it like you guys have!
Change? Yep i believe it has!

I'm nobody but i love steel guitar!
Thanks to all of you for staying true!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 19 Aug 2010 10:34 am

i think i agree with kenny. it would be nice to hear more originality and individual personality in the steel we're fed on the radio/tv. of course this stems partly from the successful(busine$$wise) yet annoying (listener-wise) trend of nashville using a very small number of players doing most of the recording...and so the tour players are mostly copying someone else's basic concepts.

i think it would be a fun experiment to outlaw studio musicians for a year and require every artist to perform annd record with their own band.

the same originality/individual-personality problem is found in singers and songwriters these days...and voices...so many artists are fairly indistinguishable from each other.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 19 Aug 2010 10:37 am

Paul Franklin said:

I believe appearance has always been relevant.....

Yes, but today things have really gotten out of hand. $:\$

Fats had Talent

This Spice Girl Never Had Talent... or fat!

Talent? Not needed at all anymore.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Aug 2010 10:47 am

IMHO. many of you guys are making a mistake be conflating the steel guitar with country music. While it's true that the steel has been primarily used in country music for many years, there is no reason for it to be confined to that genre. It's not a country instrument, it's a musical instrument, capable of playing many different styles and genres.

It may be true that the role of the steel in country music is diminishing, but it is finding homes (at last) in those others genres. Let me repeat the examples I mentioned earlier: Jim Webb's recent appearance on Letterman with Mike Johnson, and Chrissie Hynde and the Pretenders addition of Eric Heywood in their lineup.

Additionally, not long ago Joan Baez performed with the Boston Pops orchestra, and brought a steel player with her.

Look at Susan Alcorn, taking the steel to the world of avant garde music. Or Bruce Kaphan, whose new CD is actually selling well to the New Age audience.

Look at me. I'm (as far as I know) the only member of this forum currently signed to a record label, and that happened because I play classical music. If I had recorded a CD of country music, the record company would not have picked up on it.

When the original cassette of my Firebird Suite CD was released, the first review in Steel Guitar World acknowledged that it was really good, but said that it "didn't serve the needs of the steel guitar community," and ended with the words: "Michael, go back to playing country."

The reviewer missed the point. My goal was not to "serve the needs of the steel guitar community" but to introduce the steel to the classical music community.

The rest of the world, outside of the steel guitar community, and the entire music community as a whole is discovering, and falling in love with the pedal steel guitar. Those players who can adapt to new and different styles and genres are paving the way.

Many people here grew up listening to country music. It is your cultural heritage, and holds a special place in your hearts. But it is not the only kind of music in the world, and it is most definitely not the only kind of music for which the steel is ideally suited.

It's a cliché, but it's time for you guys to start thinking "outside the box."

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 19 Aug 2010 10:53 am

Wow, Mike, right on! It is people like you and Susan Alcorn who are going to bring the pedal steel guitar out of this 'country music box'.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 19 Aug 2010 11:25 am

at least 4 people approached me on the last couple of gigs who had never seen a steel before. it's interesting how many people haven't.

mike, you can widen the scope of steel. i can't because i've never heard the word 'conflating' before.

danny..you and me in those spice girl dresses could be a new act! we wouldn't need talent either.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 19 Aug 2010 11:34 am

There's only one problem with that theory/lecture Mike.

If there never was country music, there never would have been a pedal steel guitar. If there never was classical music, the saxophone would have never been invented.

So the sax players in the orchestras around the world should dislike jazz sax players and the jazz players dislike the guys playing the saxes in the orchestra? One should even consider a lecture telling the other what style to play?

If that's your theory Mike, and you really have the ball now, then I say run with it.

Unfortunately, I have a theory. My theory says that you're only as professional as the amount of money your making in your profession... not the contract you signed.

Re: Classical music/orchestra musicians.

I have unfortunately been there and done that with the orchestras. Just wait for the real fun. When a rehearsal is needed for a performance and the first violinist stands up and says "We are currently 5 minutes over the rehearsal time and going into another hour now, are we gonna get paid for this?"... and a negotiation takes place for 15 more minutes of rehearsal.. then you will realize that your coveted classical orchestra (union) musicians are not in it just for fun... maybe it's for the money? My experiences were very disheartening to me. I will never work with an orchestra again.

You know what they say... Show me the money

BTW, Reviews are like love letters... keep the good ones and tear the bad ones up immediately!

Marty Muse · Post by **Marty Muse** » 19 Aug 2010 12:27 pm

A lot of great positive commentary on the state of the steel. In reference to the organ comments from Paul and Jim, I've always thought that the steel and the B3 compliment each other so well even when playing basically the same thing. Two great examples that I like both involve Pete Drake: The signature lick of Bob Dylan's Lay Lady Lay and George Harrison's Behind That Locked Door are steel and B3 and they blend and support each other in a really nice way. The infinite sustain of the organ brings that to the steel and the vocal quality and vibrato of the steel bring life to the sound of the organ. A great combo I think!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Aug 2010 1:58 pm

Danny Bates wrote:

If there never was country music, there never would have been a pedal steel guitar.

Danny, that's only partly true. Alvino Rey, the father of the pedal steel guitar, played in a big band. The instrument found a home in country music, but it did not start out there,

Be that as it may, the steel's history in country music is not a valid reason for it not to be used in other genres. The violin's history in classical music goes back centuries. Does that mean it shouldn't be used in country (or rock or jazz) too?

There will always be steel players who choose to play country to the exclusion of everything else, but it doesn't follow that EVERYBODY has to do that.

There are a lot of other kinds of music in the world, and collectively, there are a lot more people who like them, then there are country fans. "Outside the box" players like Susan and B.J. Cole and Robert Randolph and Ned Selfe and Bruce Kaphan and Robert Powell and Hal Merrill and Al Vescovo and me are exposing these people to our instrument. We are expanding its use and promoting it to new audiences.

How can anybody say that's not a good thing?

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 19 Aug 2010 2:49 pm

Mike, I agree. The country western stigma is certainly attached to the pedal steel guitar.

Myself being a big fan of Alvino, I should have said that without the extensive use of pedal steel in country music, pedal steel probably would not have survived. That's mainly because I don't know why anybody would build an instruent that so few people would want to buy.

Chris... Will I have to shave my legs?

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