Where do you play your blues?

[Shaun Swanson]

When I play straight up blues in E I usually use the 3rd fret with the A pedal, and the 8th fret with my RKL lever. In other words, I use the typical E minor positions.

Are there any other useful positions I'm missing? I'm not looking for specific licks. I'm looking for general positions where licks can be built.

Thanks

[b0b]

10th fret, using the B and C pedals. The unison of strings 1 & 3 is especially effective.

You'll want to lower your 9th string too.

[Tim Heidner]

I like the A and B pedals in the 10th fret cause you get the flat 7 on the 4th string.

[b0b]

That's right, Tim. I have my high E to F# on a knee lever instead of a "C" pedal. It gives me both without moving my foot.

[Tim Heidner]

I like that idea! I have hell jumping my foot back and forth with any kind of accuracy, sometimes I use the other foot to hit the C pedal, but then the RKL is in the way.

[Mike Perlowin]

I have my high E to F# on a knee lever instead of a "C" pedal. It gives me both without moving my foot.

I tried that, but didn't like it and took it off.

If you're talking about playing the blues in E, don't overlook the open strings played with the bar.

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. LISTEN TO FRED McDOWELL. Robert Johnson was a better singer, but McDowell was IMO the best of the Mississippi delta bottleneck guitarists, and we can all learn a lot from him.

[mike nolan]

5th fret B pedal and E string lower. E7 across most of the strings...... and some nice moves back and forth with the 3rd fret A pedal position.

[Stu Schulman]

Shaun,Sometimes I start open and use some hammer on thingys.When I've worn that out I go to the tenth fret with them A&B pedals then I use the C pedal on the 15th fret on the 4th string for a choice Albert King bend.Got to have me some Albert in there.

[Barry Hyman]

Are you talking about pentatonic blues, minor blues, dorian blues, harmonic minor blues, "classic" blues, country blues, or jazzy blues?

(There isn't one "blues scale" -- there are at least seven!)

In pentatonic blues the chords are usually not articulated as either minor or major, and the scale is a pentatonic minor scale with a flat fifth added. This is the type of blues scale most common in rock.

In minor blues, all three chords are minor, and the scale is a natural minor scale with the flatted fifth. Santana's "Black Magic Woman" is an example.

In dorian blues the IV chord is major but the other two are minor, and the scale is dorian -- a minor scale with a major sixth, and of course the flatted fifth "blue note." This type is very common in blues, R&B, and rock. Most versions of "Mojo Working" use this sound.

In harmonic minor blues, the V chord is major, and the scale is harmonic minor -- a minor scale with a major seventh, or both the minor seventh and the major seventh. (Plus the flat fifth again, which is common to all the types of blues scale.) "The Thrill Is Gone" is a good example.

In what I call "classic" blues, all three chords are major or seventh chords, and the scale is complicated, changing from chord to chord. During the tonic chord, you hit the minor third (third note of the minor scale) followed immediately by the major third. During the IV chord, the scale includes the minor third only, along with the major sixth. Think "Johnny B. Goode" or "Gimme That Old Time Rock and Roll."

Same three chords in country/bluegrass blues. The difference is that the scale leans closer to a pure major scale, with the major seventh note during the V chord.

What I call jazzy blues has more than three chords, with chains of secondary dominants as in ragtime (think "Alice's Restaurant") or extra chords like in "Stormy Monday."

If the tonic chord is major, then starting with a minor chord will sound totally dumb. And vice versa.

The people who think blues is easy have only played pentatonic blues, and would never get hired by any real blues band...

[Barry Hyman]

If you don't understand my previous post, let me know and I'll explain at greater length. This stuff is important, and is a huge source of confusion. The licks that work on one blues song won't work on every blues song, and 99% of the musicians I have met in my life are totally pereplexed by this.

[Bob Hoffnar]

In pentatonic blues the chords are usually not articulated as either minor or major, and the scale is a pentatonic minor scale with a flat fifth added.

Barry,
Are you sure you don't mean adding a major 3rd or sorta inbetween major and minor 3rd to the scales you are speaking of in your post rather than a flat 5th ?

of course the flatted fifth "blue note."

I always thought the term "Blue Note" meant a lowering of the major 3rd and sometimes a lowering of the 7th.

[Bill Ladd]

I always have understood a "blue note" to be a flatted 3rd or 7th.

[Barry Hyman]

White musicologists have spoken of the three "blue notes" -- the flat third, the flat fifth, and the flat seventh -- for about 90 years. But it is not that easy to describe what blues players actually do in such simplistic vocabulary derived from the European musical tradition. The flat third resolving to the major third sound is common in all blues-influenced music that has a major chord as the tonic, including much country and bluegrass as well as blues and rock. The flat seventh is heard everywhere, of course. The flat fifth, or more correctly, the whole range of possible pitches between the fourth and the fifth notes of the scale, is an essential part of harder blues and rock sounds, but is quite rare in mellower blues, country, and bluegrass.

[Ben Jones]

1. No pedals or levers, I have "blues boxes" I run licks out of. this is the bulk of it for me.
2. Single string. super high and super low. screaming (high) or moaning (low). sometimes just state the melody on a single string = beautiful
3. what stu said. 2 back from open with AB. 7 string becomes your root here. Stu thanks for the Albert lick at 15th fret, I will try that one...it sounds great already.
4. two back from open with BC pumping up and down on strings 1 and 4 is a nice hendrix unison lick that I overuse. ( I think this is the one bOb meant when he said unison on strings 1 and 3..its 1 and 4 on my guitar which is a standard emmons setup and E9th tuning)

mostly tho its my homemade self found "blues boxes" with no pedals

I am a nobody tho,everyone here knows more than me so take my ideas with a whole salt lick of salt. I like to think I excel at bluesy or rock playing tho, casue i sure dont excel at clasic country try as I might.

One of, if not my very favorite, example of bluesy psg playing is Dan Tyacks Blackened Toast album. Its E9th he says. Holy geez. Id kill for some of those licks. Have learned alot (i think) from just trying to cop some. You can score the album here on the forum or thru Dan.

[Dave Mudgett]

On guitar, I started out playing blues a long time ago - that was what motivated the switch from keyboard. I went from a strictly reading-the-written-note classical piano approach to a strictly playing-what-I-heard guys like Albert King, BB King, Muddy Waters and so on playing. To me, the exact evolution of blue-note figure phrasing - how to approach blue notes, how to articulate them in the middle of a phrase, how to move elsewhere, and lots of other subtle things - is what really makes blues. It's the way things are emphasized that matters, and I agree with Barry that there are lots and lots of different ways to get there that one can pick up by listening to a lot of the classic blues players. Western written note analogies are useful but only go so far. I agree with Barry that strong blue-note figures work between western b3-3, b5-5, 6-b7, and b7-1 notes, and one can find other places for them. To me, it's a whole way of thinking about moving between notes, and not just in certain places, as well as how to articulate those in-between phrasings.

So my answer is that one can get blues anywhere on any stringed instrument. Everything is open to that kind of interpretation. Simply sliding around on a single string can be very useful, in any position. There are tons of double-stops all over the neck. Simply sliding around in the open chord position is a key position, as a slide guitarist does. In the usual A+F inversion position, one can either slide around to get in-between positions, move the F-lever in-between its limits to get varying shades of 3rds, or move the A-pedal to get varying shades between b7 and 1. In the usual A+B 2nd inversion position, one can always just slide around, work with the 6th tone in the chord, partial-pedal the A-pedal, or hit the E-lever and move down 2 frets for a 9th chord which one can toggle A and B pedals between 1 and 2 notes or 6 and b7 tones and also slide around that position. These are just the "Big 3" E9 positions, and in and around each of them, one can get a lot of blues by simply sliding around like a blues guitarist or have useful partial pedal/lever moves to get in-between notes and phrases.

To me, a simple E9 pedal steel with just the most basic maneuvers is a total-slide-guitar-on-steroids blues-making marvel that I would have killed for 40 years ago if I could have just afforded one. Most of the greats like Earl Hooker, Robert Nighthawk, and Freddie Roulette - the guys who set the standard for blues played with a slide or bar - didn't have 10% of the mechanical options any pedal steel guitarist has without having to learn anything past those classic E9 moves. Lots of guitar players get plenty of blues just with a few notes in standard guitar tuning - no open tuning at all.

To me, past this, it's mostly figuring out how to phrase and play the top of the guitar so it sounds like - well, blues. To me, blues has a sound that's pretty instantly recognizable. The pedal steel, far from being a limitation, has so many options that I need to always think in terms of projecting all those options down to those that say blues and not something else.

PS - one of the things I like about a 12-string universal or Ext E9 is the low E note. Those low string slides are an important sound - try doing stuff like Muddy's low-note slide figures without them - and missing on std. 10-string E9 steel. If I was mainly playing blues and all I had was a 10-string E9, I'd probably ditch something to get that low E. But I have a universal that fits that bill perfectly.

[Ben Jones]

nice variety of responses in this thread!
I guess everybody has their fave spots.
I'll have fun checking em out next time I sit down.

[b0b]

Take your foot off the volume pedal.

[Bo Legg]

I think the in between Minor scales and the many scales and faces of the Blues have been covered very adequately here given that most of us can play all over the neck when it comes to the blues.
So let me just add something from a simplistic view.
This is an approach to the blues that Stuart came up with for me and I use all or some form of this all the time no matter what genre I’m playing.
The principal is that when I want to play in the key of (A) I play the Up position and the Down position of (A) as an (A) major scale. And /or I play the Up position and Down position of (G) as an (Am) scale. And/or I play the Up position and Down position of (D)as an(A)dominant 7th scale. (I can play any one or all of these scales completely through most Blues songs)
I connect all this together by using that Amazing little 1 pedal 3 string song (of course in (A) for the (A)major and (G) for the (A)minor and (D) for the (A)dominant 7th.
It looks like this (sorry you’ll have to transpose this to (E))

[Ben Jones]

Take your foot off the volume pedal.

I just keep that thing floored anyway when its solo time. I'm up against loud guitars and I show them the same mercy they show me...none. Besides you want a guitar like attack, not swells or VP used for sustain.

[Jim Hoke]

Play w/a flat-pick. It'll change your style and make it bluesier.

[Shane Reilly]

I play my best blues In the gutter.

[Barry Hyman]

One of my favorite places to play blues, other than those already mentioned, is on the thick strings of my S-12 Extended E9th. The six thickest strings are an E9th chord open -- E, G#, B, D, E, and F#.

If you have the lever that lowers the ninth string D to C#, and if you can raise the E strings to F at the same time, then try this: You have an E7 open on strings 11, 10, 9, and 8. Slide up three frets, raise the E strings ("F lever") and lower the ninth string, and you have the next inversion of the E7 chord. Slide up three more frets, keep the F lever engaged, and use the vertical that lowers the B strings to Bb (if you've got it) and you have the next inversion of E7. Great stuff...

[Jim Hoke]

Barry - I bet you know a steel player I went to high school with in Schenectady (since there can't be many steel players in your neck of the woods), named Rick Morse. He's been in lots of country rock bands. Ring a bell?

[Barry Hyman]

Funny you should ask -- I just met Rick Morse this summer. I had two gigs a week apart where he was playing pedal steel in a different band at the same show, both weeks. We talked a little. Nice guy, good player...

[Tom Karsiotis]

I usually use E - E B E G# B E (Low to high) on a lap steel that was an early model Multi-Kord that had no pedals or legs when I got it. It's a big block of mahogany with an added Alumitone pickup. I put it through a Tech21 60W amp on the overdrive setting and it screams! In the link I mounted a flip video camera on the guitar so you cant see it but you can hear it from 3:10-4:14. I also had this same guitar in C6 - C E G A C E (Low to high) and it also worked for Blues especially for the 9th chord substitutions or minor blues. On my Dobro the tuning G B D G B D works somewhat but the slants are harder on the longer scale. Now that I have acquired a ZB D10 3KL 9Pedals I'm going to have to find the Blues on this one too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOyBEQOpTv4

There are some great licks possible using the open strings in E major but when the band plays in G like Buzz did in the video you lose that advantage.