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Topic: St Louis Sound Team |
Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Doug Rolfe
From:
Indianapolis, IN
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Posted 10 Sep 2005 4:04 pm |
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| Bill, the little time that I got to hear it, it was the best that I've heard there. You didn't have to be blasted with sound to listen to it. Yet the sound filled the room and it was very clean. Thanks for a great job guys and gals. |
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Evelyn Whitney
From:
Muskegon, MI 49441 USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2005 9:54 am
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Thanks to all of you in the sound booth.
For all of it.
A special thanks for cueing and playing the Randy Travis tape of congratulations
for L. T.s induction ceremony.
Charlene, Randys secretary would have been upset if that had not gotten played.
I can't tell you all she went through to pull that off in the time I alloted her.
Special thanks. Evelyn[This message was edited by Evelyn Whitney on 11 September 2005 at 10:55 AM.] [This message was edited by Evelyn Whitney on 11 September 2005 at 10:57 AM.] |
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Larry Moore
From:
Hampton, Ga. USA
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Buck Grantham R.I.P.
From:
Denham Springs, LA. USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2005 11:35 am
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The sound was great but the sound people looked kinda strange ??????????  |
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Fred Rushing
From:
Odin, IL, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2005 11:57 am
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| Bill I thought the crew was as good as any and the VOLUME was ok. If you were off to the sides of the hall you could not hear well at all. All the volcal announncments were set to low in volume for all in the hall to understand what was being said. If you like BASS AND DRUMS WHICH IS THE MODERN WAY TO MIX YOU LIKE THE SOUND. If you came to hear steel guitar at its best you did not hear the mix myself and many others wanted. Sorry fellas bit in my opinion other than being to loud at times the mixing setup in the past was much better than this year. I have attended Scottys show since 1975 and this it my two cents woth. Thanks and no offense intended. Fred Rushing |
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Herby Wallace
From:
Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Sep 2005 2:18 pm
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Well, I shouldn't put my two cents worth in, but I have to agree with Fred Rushing 100%. I had several steel guitar players who I know and respect tell me that they couldn't hear me very well at all through the main speakers, but if they sat in the center they could hear but they were hearing me from my cabinets. Even my wife and Curtis Potter's wife couldn't hear me at my booth in the back of the hall. Also, the vocals weren't very clear either just like Fred said. I heard several other steel players throughout the show in different places in the hall and the sound wasn't what it should be. Again, I'm not wanting to start anything, but I have been playing St. Louis every year since 1978 and this is just my opinion, but I will never agree that the sound was good! I will admit that my set was a little better on Sunday, probably because I had complained about it, but my Friday night set with Curtis Potter was terrible.
Again, I apologize if I've offended anyone, but this is just my personal opinion.
Herby Wallace
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BOBBY JACKS
From:
Fort Madison, Iowa
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Posted 11 Sep 2005 2:43 pm
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| I Have Been There 7 Years, Saw And Heard More Problems Than I Ever Have,Yes It Was Not Blaring,But Vocals Were In And Out,Sometimes Not At All, Could Not Hear Certain Insturments At Different Times,And What Was The Loud Bangs That Went Off At Different Times That About Broke Our Ear Drums? ,Never Heard That In The Past,Overall They Have Some Things To Correct,But If This Was The First Year I'm Sure They Will All Be Corrected Next Year,But It Wasn't Anything To Brag About. |
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2005 3:43 pm
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Just to clarify why some players can be heard off to the side and some cannot.
When a player, no matter what instrument, gets on stage and blares thru their amps, they are virtually removed from the sound system. When this happens, the people in or near the center hear that instrument very well, sometimes too much, and the people off to the side don't hear them at all.
And a circular room only enhances this situation.
That is the way sound is and to my knowledge it will always be that way.
In St Louis, a circular room, additional PA cabinets used to be aimed toward the side walls, but the vendors constantly complained that the sound was too loud and they could not conduct business.
If every player would come on stage and at least start with their volume low, it would give the sound people a better shot at a quality mix.
Even a rehearsal is no good for the sound crew, because players always play much lower at rehearsals than a live performance.
Their is no way ANY sound team will ever please everyone. But I will say that throughout the weekend, only 3 people came to the sound booth with a complaint and literally dozens came with compliments.
Even the steel players themselves that took the time to come by the sound booth and could hear from our vantage point, raved about the quality of the sound.
That is why whenever I go to any live show, I always try to get seats by the sound booth. It is and will always be best there.
Now that's my two cents worth and I have run or been involved with sound at steel shows for over 25 years.
Bill |
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Herby Wallace
From:
Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Sep 2005 4:38 pm
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Bill, we have been friends for years and I don't want that to change, but I still completely disagree. I have played too many other shows where the sound was right. Also, I know that the sound people would love it if I played at one level all the time, but that's not the way music is. There is no way I can play at the same level on a ballad or backing a singer as I do on a driving swing tune. I couldn't be heard on the ballads or backup behind Curtis Potter. I don't want to argue about this, and I'm sorry if my playing is considered to be a blare because I try to use dynamics. Also, for what it's worth, one of my friends who told me how bad my sound was, was sitting right beside the sound booth. I guess since you have 25 years of experience with sound that I don't know what I'm talking about. I have played St. Louis for 27 years and I was so upset Friday night that I wanted to pack up and go home. Again, I really don't want to argue, but I just can't agree and say this is alright.
Herby Wallace
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rpetersen
From:
Iowa
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Posted 12 Sep 2005 4:41 am
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I love Peavey products and there service organization and will always use Peavey products - but a sound team is a tough job and it won't always be perfect. But sometimes I think they should take off the head phones, wander around and listen to what is really happening - I was sitting in the middle about 2/3 the way back from the stage and the sound team - which I thought would be the best place to sit - I wasn't impressed - You could always hear Bobby Caldwell and Roy Rosetta and the Bass guitar (usually over the steel).
I really felt sorry for Billy Phelps - he has such a nice clean & warm sound playing at the Carter Booth and when he got up and played through the same amp with the same settings, his tone was very unpleasant and was buried in the mix - Billy said the same thing and was really down after his set. At some shows I think players intentionally play loud so the audience hears their tone instead of what the sound team produces. I know I do! Like Herby, most players change volumes during a song and with different songs - always have and always will - that's just puting feeling into your playing - but when the above mentioned staff band is too loud, song after song, And they probably don't realize it from up on stage, they could be turned down or told to so if they are too loud. These are all experienced musicians and like myself, if something doesn't sound right to the people that are paying the bill, I want to know it.
Sorry about rambling on, It's a great show and I will always be there when possible - Peavey - You are a great organization - and keep up being a leader like you are.
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Ron Petersen &
The Keep'n Tyme Band
Mullen Universal 12 - LDG SHO BUD - 1975 Session 400 - Vegas 400 - ETC.
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Doug Rolfe
From:
Indianapolis, IN
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Posted 12 Sep 2005 5:27 am
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Being in the position of promoting a show here in INDY each year, I can tell you from my own experiences that there are issues that are difficult to resolve.
I have told the sound man to turn a certain instrument down because it was too loud and found out that the instrument in question was totally out of the mix. I believe this happened on occasion this year at St. Louis.
First of all "loud" does not necessarily equate to good tone. In fact it can be hurtful for tone at times.
Secondly, the sound man is constantly battling the issue of instruments competing with each other for "loud".
I have had band members tell me that they cannot hear themselves due to someone overplaying and therefore cannot add properly to the mix. I have personally told the bass player to turn his "loud" down at times.
It is rare that you can't hear the steel since it has such a presence and will by its very nature come through in the mix of the band.
I have resolved that in the future, if someone is playing too loud at our show that I will politely ask them to turn their "loud" down. If that doesn't work, I will shorten their set. I know that this seems harsh, but when people pay to come and hear steel music, and then tell me that the "loud" is hurting their ears, it is time to do something.
Again I wasn't in the main ballroom all that much, but when I was, it was clear to me that this was the best sound that I have heard since going to the ISGC. It was clean and didn't burst your eardrums.
"Loud and good aren't necessarily the same"
For me, a big thank you to Bill and the gang for trying to make a difficult situation better.
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2005 12:08 pm
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This is an issue that can NEVER be resolved, because you cannot please everyone.
But when you are mixing sound for some 2000 people and you only get 3 or 4 complaints, then you have to consider it a job well done.
Concerning headphones, the "LIVE" sound team never wore headphones. This was my recording/steelradio crew. And we have to listen to headphones louder than the room volume. Loud outbursts from the stage litterally knock my ears off. Many times I have to remove headphones and let the recorder get what it gets for that reason.
Considering what Herby said, he listened to his recording from Friday night and was outraged. This is my fault as I simply could not handle those peaks in volumes in my ears. AND Herby was the first player on the show which means all adjustments to sound and recording have to be made AFTER he starts playing. The afternoon rehearsal was primarilly for the band to learn the songs (another story, another time) because the sound team had to reset the mix for the opening ceremonies and then try to redo a mix AFTER Herby started playing, the same as I had to do in my headphones. I still say the live sound was just fine and I will stop with that.
Concerning the bass and drums. The drums were miked only for recording purposes. They were not in the house mix hardly at all.
The bass was in the house mix, but was turned off most of the time because the stage volume of the bass was plenty loud.
I have now listened to 33 CD's of the complete show. And after the initial mix and usually after the first song of each performer, we were able to get a decent recording. It will never be perfect as we get nothing up front. Everything, 24 channels are mixed down to monaural (for steel radio) on the fly.
End of this for me, as this post was started to show a couple of candid pictures of the sound team.
Oh yes, Scotty came to the sound booth several times bragging on the high quality of the sound. He would not do this if people in the audience were not happy. Why it was even asked several times to the audience how the sound was and each time it was a resounding, great.
PS: Recorded sound is mixed separately from the main mix, so any bad recording has no bearing on the live mix or vice-versa.
Bill
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2005 12:20 pm
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| Oh yes Herby. As far as I am concerned, this does not affect our friendship. I would give it up completely before I would let that happen. |
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Buck Grantham R.I.P.
From:
Denham Springs, LA. USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2005 4:49 pm
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| There is (no taking sides in this matter) Great sound is an alusive thing. I think it's much harder to master the sound in an oval room like we had.And no matter what ,you're going to have both happy people and un happy people. If you please seventy five percent of the people you're lucky. I think every one including the players and the sound people did their best to produce a great show. And remember,, This is a fellowship with us . We are brothers here. And we will stay that way. Buck & Mitzi |
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rpetersen
From:
Iowa
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Posted 12 Sep 2005 5:07 pm
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Quote - The bass was in the house mix, but was turned off most of the time because the stage volume of the bass was plenty loud.
I probably didn't state my reply right - That's mostly what I was trying to get across - I think the other things that were too loud were probably uncontrolable by any sound man - That could be corrected easily.
One player told me he couldn't hear his steel while playing on stage!! I feel sorry for a sound team trying to do the imposible - maybe just a few hints to the staff band as they may not know that this is going on.
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Franklin
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Posted 13 Sep 2005 6:04 am
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This is not an attack on Bill or his team. They accomplished what they were asked to do.
I didn't like the overall low volume of this years show. I play twice as loud on the Ryman stage and every instrument is heard through the PA without any feedback problems. I have never heard a stage volume that soft in a venue that large.
Paul
[This message was edited by Franklin on 13 September 2005 at 07:24 AM.] |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 13 Sep 2005 6:09 am
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| I think that a few hours on the mixing board would be a great experience for all musicians. Knowing what the sound man has to deal with and cooperating with him is an art form that requires sensitivity and communication from both sides. As soon as an onstage player plays too loud for the sound man to have control, then the mix starts going downhill, especially in large rooms. |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2005 6:37 am
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Buck is right. If you satisfy 75% that's top notch. You have to figure that at least 25% of the audience at Scotty's are musicians. 
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HagFan
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2005 1:37 pm
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Thanks for your input Paul and you sounded GREAT.
In years past, the #1 complaint was that the sound was too loud. This came from the audience and even more so from the vendors around the room. Said they could not conduct business with the music so loud.
I agree with you completely, but it was my call this year and I opted for volume around 95-98db at the sound booth.
We were actually praised for the "lower" volume this year. Have to remember the overall age of the crowd (me included even though while mixing separately for steelradio.com, I had to have earphones louder than the room)
Oh yes, now that you have joined the ranks of "senior" citizens, you will probably like the volume softer some day. Just teasing you and thank you for you and your families friendship over the years.
Bill |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 13 Sep 2005 3:36 pm
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Bill wrote:
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| This came from the audience and even more so from the vendors around the room. Said they could not conduct business with the music so loud. |
The same problem at the local shows I no longer attend. It's becoming more about Bs'ing and doing business than about the music. Everyone wants to be able to talk over the music without raising their voices.
Time was it was considered rude to talk while somone was giving a concert. I guess all that's changed. To me if someone wants to get into a long winded conversation they need to leave the concert hall. Vendors need to suck it up or spring for a room to sale there goods. Or maybe we should just leave our instruments at home and tell everyone how good we are??
I have somewhere a video tape of the great Curly Chalker.He's giving a concert and this group at one table got pretty loud. Curly gave them that ole shut the hell up look as only he could do. That problem was solved.
I don't think steel guitar convention volumes should be like todays club volumes.Not at all. I just like to be able to hear the player without making a special effort. To me. the steel guitar should be in your face. But of course not ear piercing.
One last thought. Guys like Franklin and Herby should be louder than some poor guy struggling to play his 1st show. You know the cringe factor. What I'm trying to say. Really good players can get away playing louder because they're more pleasing to the ears. Just my opinion...bb
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Mark Kelchen
From:
Cedar Rapids, Iowa USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2005 6:46 pm
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Paul..Out there to us, you literally attacked your guitar! Your performance was excellent! Our Pleasure to hear and meet you!
Herby, yours was great also, a little weak as hearing from just in front of the sound board.
STRICTLY my opinion, but there is a reason for "warm up bands" etc.....
All of these players deserve better sound production than what we heard.
Peavey is no doubt one of the finest products on the market, but the sound team perhaps needs to be honed a little finer than they were to embellish musicians of this calibre! |
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Herby Wallace
From:
Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Sep 2005 11:05 pm
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Thanks for your comments Mark.
Herby Wallace
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2005 4:29 am
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"STRICTLY my opinion, but there is a reason for "warm up bands" etc....."
Amen, at least ANY sound team would get a better shot at the performance.
In this case Herby was the "warm up band" to no fault of the sound team.
Bill |
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