Do singers appreciate what you play?

[Jim Lindsey (Louisiana)]

Once when I worked for Jim Ed we were doing some real nice ballad and I was playing my butt off playing fills, I thought. He turned around and said "let me know when you're done with your solo and I'll sing again" ... his comment to me that evening is one of the best pieces of advice I have ever received. It took me a while to understand it but in the long term I wouldn't take anything for it.

I really like what you said there, Johnny. In my career, I've always tried to live by that same philosophy and it really worked well. In an amusing twist of Fate, however, there was this one band I worked with for four years who had an opposite view to the "less is more" philosophy ... the band was called Whatta Band and the singers, all three of them, wanted (actually, demanded) that I play all over the top of them.

It took me a few weeks to settle into doing exactly that and it was the weirdest feeling as a steel player to start a song and play dominant fills and everything all the way through each song, but I finally settled into doing exactly what they wanted and it eventually turned out to be a fun four years with them.

As strange as it may seem, it actually worked for them and they loved it. I will admit, though, that after I left the group I was able to breathe a huge sigh of relief while getting back to playing, shall we say, more "proper" steel again.

[Barry Hyman]

The only person I ever hear complain about my playing is me. About 80% of the time my pedal steel playing is not good enough for me, but no one else around here seems to mind... But then I never play with anybody who is famous, and I avoid musicians with ego problems whenever possible. I definitely time my fills to start when the singer reaches the end of the line, and end my fill before the next vocal line, though. Drowning out singers is a mistake I learned to avoid long ago...

[Carson Leighton]

I give to em' with both barrels.. If you got in ya', you gotta' get it out... When it comes time for me to play, then that's when I'll play...One thing I never do though,,is take away from the singer...You have to know when to do the right thing..All I can say is it takes years of experience...I've found that doing studio work has really complimented my playing over the years...I can honestly say that I have never had a problem with any singer that I have ever worked with,,and they have even bought me a beer or two... Carson

[Ned McIntosh]

I'm fortunate enough to back up a lot of different vocalists through our local country music association, which is great for making you think on your feet. More than a few have thanked me for playing...and some thank me for not playing when they were singing! These tend to be the older, more experienced artists. The younger ones don't seem to care, or notice. But I still do my best for them, to be "a good and true servant of the music".

I've read so much good advice here on the forum, but the great majority of what I have retained has come from anecdotes related about two genuine gentlemen of the steel-guitar; the late Jeff Newman and the late John Hughey. I really take their advice to heart.

We have the great luxury of not needing to be hot all the time on our instrument. We can lay right out for a few bars, a whole verse or even almost the entire song, if we are not needed.

I firmly believe "if you do it right, you don't need to do much". With a good vocalist that seems definitely to be the case.

It's nice to be thanked for what you play, as well as what you don't play.

[Cal Sharp]

I'm fortunate enough to back up a lot of different vocalists ... More than a few have thanked me for playing...and some thank me for not playing when they were singing! These tend to be the older, more experienced artists.

I was playing some kind of a benefit show back in the 80's with Faron's band, and Bill Monroe came in with his fiddle player and did a few numbers. Knowing what a hard-core bluegrasser he was, I figured he wouldn't want an electric steel guitar whining behind him, so I sneaked off stage and went on break. When the gig was over he thanked me for playing.

[David Griffin]

I always try to play with taste & just play simple fills,stay off the singers' toes & then along comes a singer who talks all thru your solos! As in:"Ladies & gentlemen here's the fantastic Bubba Boshanks on the electric Hawaiian pedal steel guitar,ain't he great,give him a big round of applause!" By then your solo is over & nobody heard a note of it because of the motormouth singer! A BIG pet peeve of mine!

[Cal Sharp]

& then along comes a singer who talks all thru your solos!

Pet peeve of mine, too. That's a stupid thing in country music. Doesn't happen on jazz gigs, where the soloist gets recognition after he plays, and the next guy might let a couple bars go by before he starts his solo.

[Billy Carr]

Lead players with big ego's seem to be my problem. I don't want anybody playing on top of me and I surely don't play on top of anybody during there break, intro, etc. Nowadays, I choose who and where I play. I've found a good way to bring attention to a "hog" that plays while I'm trying to is to just stop playing, take off my picks and prop up on the guitar. Sometimes a bathroom break while there burning it up works well. Respect works two ways.

[Herb Steiner]

Some years back I was in the road band of a well-known Texas artist and we were playing a rodeo dance. Mid-show he asked me to play an instrumental, and so I went right into a tune.

Then the artist got on the microphone and talked entirely through my solo, and the lead guitarist's solo, about nothing but bullsh!t but only to hear himself talk. The whole band was royally pissed off, me especially, so after the lead player's break, I went into the bridge of the song and ended it, frontman still yakking away.

The artist, who also played guitar, turned to me and said "why'd you end the song early? I wanted to play a solo."

I glared at him and said "you just did."

Here's a guy who's gone through so many musicians it's legendary, and can't understand why he doesn't get respect from his sidemen. The idea that to get respect, you must show respect was a concept totally lost on him.

[Ray Harrison]

It seems that this has been a one sided topic, even though it was offered up as open to discussion.
Being a so called singer, I'll post a comment and state an opinion.
Some of you know me and others don't, but I have a great regard for the guys that I pick and sing with. I've been a band leader most of my life and hire guys that not only play well, but want to be a part of a group.
I appreciate any sideman that is playing to make the entire group sound the best that it can be. I offer opportunities for the lead instuments to have their time in the spotlight with instrumentals and extra rides if it is a song that really shows a guitar or Steel guitar.
What I don't like is a musician that is playing for himself and nobody else.
I've heard bands that had great musicians and they sounded mediocre and bands that had not as talented musicians that sounded great because they were playing for each other and not themselves.
Overall, I maintain a healthy respect for the guys that have supported me and still support me on the stage.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Generally I am fully appreciated by singers. I'm not the greatest steel player but I seem to stay busy.

I tend to not bend notes or use much vibrato while the singer is singing.

I stay out of the singers register unless I am playing close in with them like a back up singer.

I leave the melody note out of the chords or at least not in the upper voice of my chord while they are singing.

I'll end my solo with the melody note they come in on or an obvious transition phrase to get to the section where they come in.

I try to be prepared.

I don't think about my playing. I try to focus on the overall sound of the band and play what is needed at the time as best I can.

I have worked with a pile neurotic singers and recently a complete asshole that nothing will work for though.

[Craig A Davidson]

Lead players with big ego's seem to be my problem. I don't want anybody playing on top of me and I surely don't play on top of anybody during there break, intro, etc. Nowadays, I choose who and where I play. I've found a good way to bring attention to a "hog" that plays while I'm trying to is to just stop playing, take off my picks and prop up on the guitar. Sometimes a bathroom break while there burning it up works well. Respect works two ways.

Lead players seem to be my problem also. Like the ones that try to play twin parts off the cuff, even when they have never done the song.

[Cal Sharp]

Yeah, overbearing guitar players... Makes you wonder where they came up with that style, because I've never heard it on a record. Maybe they're used to working as a single act at a Holiday Inn lounge. See The guitar player and you and Overbearing guitar players.

[Jim Cohen]

Yeah, I had one who asked me to sit in with his band... and then never gave me any airtime at all! He hogged all the solo and fill space for himself (as he presumably is accustomed to doing when there was no steel in the band; he just made no accommodation whatever for having a steel added).

The most egregious episode was when they called the tune, Sleepwalk, okay? So I figure, I'll finally get to play something, right? WRONG! He hogged the entire tune on guitar and didn't even throw me an 8 bar solo, let alone a chorus. On SLEEPWALK fercryinoutloud. Sheesh!

Needless to say, I won't be gigging with him again.

[John De Maille]

Of all the singers, I've worked with, I've considered myself a backup player. Add the fills when needed and lay out or play low, when not needed. Your ears will tell you when and also the knowledge of a particular tune. I've never had a problem with a singer and have been asked back to perform many times. The tune you're playing and the amount of players on stage should mitigate, who's who and what's what. Good musicians should be able to work this out and if done correctly, will be appreciated by the singer or singers. Because, without the backup players, the singer will usually be lost for lack of dimension.
OTOH- My band consists of me, a bass player, a guitar player, a drummer and my wife, who, sings lead and plays accoustical guitar. I've been backing her up for 33 yrs and she depends on what I play. We do only cover tunes and she wants to hear the steel parts that are on the CD's, or else! The guitar player and I get our equal share of soloing, so there's never a problem. She definitely appreciates me and the rest of the band. And, that's how it should be. Your mileage may vary, though!

[b0b]

I play over top of everyone, whenever I feel like it. Maybe that's why I don't get many gigs. I have fun, though, and people seem to like it.

If the band is too loud I just stop playing.

[Bob Carlucci]

I am glad I rarely play as a sideman these days.
Many of my experiences have not been good, even with a very well know recording artist, from long ago.
I did a show with him in the afternoon , only one I was scheduled to play, at a certain pay rate.
He asked me to stay and play his evening show with another back band he had hired, which meant staying a hundred miles from home an extra 5 or 6 hours...
I stayed, I did the second show and he never paid me for it... Just took off without even a thank you.

Everyone else has had good experiences with him, so maybe I caught him on a bad day.


I FAR prefer a good self contained band, thats a good solid unit, with everyone contributing lead vocals, backup parts and fills, solos etc, and an even split in money.
You can KEEP the front man/ front woman/sideman shtick.
Lotsa prima donnas to sift through in that scene.
I like a close unit watching my back, and depending on me as well, where I have an equal say, and get my time to shine.

Maybe I am lucky I don't know, but my days as a "sideman" were gone long ago.
Being one of 3 lead singers and one of 2 lead guitarists in my band helps I guess.

That way I can be a prima donna for a song or two as well!
When 4 or 5 guys alternate between being swell headed
"stars" and then descend into "sideman" status for a few songs, it makes for a happier situation, you get to see things from both sides.

Too many "front men/woman don't play an instrument, and can't relate.
The ones that are good players as well, seem to be easier to work with IMHO....

[Clyde Mattocks]

Jim Cohen's post reminds me of a time I was called to sub with a band on a bar gig. The guitar player played all the solos and fills, didn't give me a spot all night. I'm thinking, "I wonder if he played Steel Guitar Rag, would he give me a solo?" At the end of the night, they paid me and told me they couldn't have done it without me.

Another singer I used to work with occasionally would ask me to play an instrumental, "You know, Danny Boy or Tennesse Waltz." I would get one chorus into it and he would jump in and sing the rest of it.

[Charley Wilder]

Like Jim, I played for years with a singer who wanted me to play almost constant fills. He got nervous if there wasn't a fill behind him all the time! It was great fun BUT a habit that's very hard to break after many years with him. Other singers I played for weren't so inclined.

[Les Anderson]

I play over top of everyone, whenever I feel like it.

b0b, you have such a smooth way with words.

[b0b]

I play over top of everyone, whenever I feel like it.

b0b, you have such a smooth way with words.

But it's true, Les. I've been listening to the piano players on blues records. That's what they do. And what about drummers? They bang on their cymbals right over everything. Why should we steel players feel that we have to play behind the singer?

[Mike Perlowin]

Most, of not all of us have run the gamut of extremes from those who appreciate us to those who didn't.

I was fortunate to work for a couple of years with a local singer named Bobby Cahill. Bobby should have become a big star. He was easily one of the finest musicians I've ever known, although his instrument was his voice. And being a fine musicians, he appreciated the work of the musicians who worked for him. Not just me, but everybody. It was one very happy band.

[Bill Moran]

I will give my lead singer credit. He loves steel guitar. He will find a good steel player someday . Now he has me and it makes me work hard.

[Dave Boothroyd]

A singer once told me, after a recording session,
"That was really nice. It didn't make my teeth hurt at all"
I'll take that as a compliment!
Cheers
Dave

[Mark Durante]

How about the singer who is also a "lead" guitarist