listening to the PS ruined my guitar playing

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 21 Jun 2010 9:32 pm

I think we have a duty to educate our youngsters about what a pedal steel is and what it sounds like.

I remember my eldest daughter (10 year old at the time) asking me as we watched a steel player set up one night (don't worry - family friendly venue) "what is that he's setting up there dad?". "A pedal steel, honey" I says. "What does it sound like" she asks. "I can't describe it love, you will recognise it when he starts playin it". And the huge beaming smile of unexpected recognition that transformed her face when the steel player played his first intro was just beautiful.

I myself, never became aware of what a pedal steel sounded like as a youngster. I knew what they were, just reckoned I'd never heard one. I recall listening to NRPS, thinking "I will NEVER be able to play my guitar like that" I didn't realise it was a Buddy Cage on the pedal steel. I thought what I was listening to was the guitar player dude doing some real fancy guitar work - and frankly - it discouraged me from playing my guitar, because I thought I would never ever get anywhere near that good.

Just wanted to share that with you - I put my guitar down for years, in frustration and despair, thinking I just didn't have what it took to get those licks (which sounded - because they were - like standard licks to me - but not standard GUITAR licks - so everyone should be able to play 'em - right? except me $:\$ ).

So, I am a mediocre guitar player because I was discouraged for so many years thinking the guitar player in NRPS was just so out of this world, and a mediocre pedal steel player because I didn't realise that it was pedal steel I was listening to all that time, and never bothered to look into it and start learning it.

This would probably never happen in America.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 21 Jun 2010 9:55 pm

Hey Jeremy, I fell in love with the steel guitar back in the 60s but never got around to buying one until 2000. Jeez, that's 40 years of loving the sound of the steel guitar but never getting out there to try to play one.

(Actually, it has now ruined my life) $:\$

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 21 Jun 2010 11:48 pm

Look on the bright side,Jeremy...Now that you DO know,you can find all those little techniques that translate so nicely from pedal to six-string and make you better-like RH palm-blocking and(especially) volume pedal sustains and swells.

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 21 Jun 2010 11:56 pm

thats right Dave

I did my best with the Arlen Roth and James Burton videos, and got to about 2.5% of what Buddy Cage could do with no bar and an itchy left foot

I have developed a good pick-and-fingers technique in the process and the volume swells work reasonably well on my Telecaster

I was despondent for so many years though, thinking there was something defective about my guitar playing.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 22 Jun 2010 2:37 am

I don't remember anyone being too terrified by David Nelson's guitar playing? Say what you will about Jerry Garcia's three steel licks, he used them to lead that band, as can easily be heard now with sugarmegs and other historical sources:
http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/NewR ... astNYC.asx
(the sound improves 5 or so minutes in).

Buddy Cage stepped into a steeler's dream job, really - and then improved upon it.

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 22 Jun 2010 5:02 am

the point is, I thought Buddy Cage on the PS was David Nelson (or someone) on the guitar - I didn't know what a PS sounded like.

I spent years wondering how anyone could get those sounds out of a guitar

and gave it up as hopeless that I would ever be able to

It wasn't until I started playing PS that I realised I was a better guitar player than I thought

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 22 Jun 2010 1:06 pm

Jeremy while reading your post with great interest my mind wondered to your avatar. Do you really have tacos in Australia?

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 22 Jun 2010 8:11 pm

yup - we got tacos in Australia

Hell, we got Taco Bells in Australia

got enchiladas too, not to mention the burritos

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 22 Jun 2010 10:59 pm

on the subject of Garcia ....

ask some Mr Average in the street what instrument plays the intro to "Teach Your Children"

betcha the vast majority will go "duh .. guitar, silly - is this a trick question"

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 22 Jun 2010 11:35 pm

Hey Jeremy
You may have Taco Bell in the west but here on the east coast we have Taco Bill !
I agree what a revelation being turned on to pedal steel .

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 23 Jun 2010 6:29 am

I used to watch that Red Ryder "Lunatic Fringe" video on mtv and the pedal steel solo would come on, this huge rock solo with tons of distortion...I'd be like "thats a weird lookin guitar!".

But on the flip side, learning psg has really improved my guitar playing. I think mostly conceptually. I never bothered with any theory on guitar, didnt think it was necessary. On psg Ive had a little forced on me and hey ..what do you know? ..its useful! Its also taught me a little about being in a band and playing with other musicians, how to back a singer, when not to play, etc. before it was go go go all the time on guitar, now I think about it a little more, where NOT to play.

Four years now and every day almost I feel like I learn something new and exciting still.

psg...i LOVE YOU!

Chris Dorch · Post by **Chris Dorch** » 23 Jun 2010 7:52 am

The funny thing is that you can get a lot of steel sounds on the guitar... Even more if you have b and/or g benders.. Or multi-benders..

You can definately tell the differences tho... Steel is far richer harmonically than any guitar ever could be..

To your point.. yes, very few kids would know what a PSG is or could dinstinctivly associate it's sound without education...

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 23 Jun 2010 8:07 am

I think pedal steel has helped my guitar playing significantly and to some extent, vice-versa. To me, it's about the musical ideas that one can hear, visualize, and execute, and each instrument sort of 'naturally' leads one in various directions. But once a musical idea is planted, one can seek out how to execute it on whatever instrument.

Where it has helped especially is feeling out how to hear and go for different chord voicings and voice movement on guitar. There are some pretty sophisticated voicing ideas that can be had without a lot of contortion on pedal steel, but are not 'obvious' moves on guitar. But once I get that sound in my head, I just force myself to do it on guitar - again, once the seed is planted in the ears and head, I think it's easier to just go for it.

Of course, one can, in principle, imagine any sounds one wants without any instrument at all. But for me, being able to hear it in action helps. So I think it's good to have knowledge of several instruments. I think music is largely in the mind, and mine needs priming sometimes.

John Ummel · Post by **John Ummel** » 23 Jun 2010 11:29 am

Buddy Cage is a great country rocker to listen. I can see where trying to cop his licks on 6 string could be a little tough!

I went to see the NRPS at a club in Seattle hoping to see/hear Buddy Cage on steel only to learn that another steeler was filling in for him...Bobby Black!

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 24 Jun 2010 12:01 am

well, Bobby Black wouldn't have been a total disappointment!

John Ummel · Post by **John Ummel** » 24 Jun 2010 6:01 am

Right Jeremy,
It was great to see Bobby Black, what a great player he is! I saw Sneaky Pete twice with the FBB, and I've seen Rusty Young with Poco, but not Buddy Cage! Oh well, I still put the Panama Red lp on the turntable once in a while and love to hear those super cool Buddy Cage licks.

(I have enough trouble trying to emulate them on E9 steel!)

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 24 Jun 2010 6:07 am

Got to see NRPS at a little venue in Holland, NY about 1975 or so. I was in the balcony (hayloft?) of a barn converted to a bar ( the Belle Star), looking right down on the steel player (Buddy Cage I believe).

Unforgettable.

Went home and immediately played Panama Red about 6 times.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 24 Jun 2010 6:19 am

The only effect pedal steel has had on my guitar playing is that I don't put so much time into practising regular guitar nowadays. In fact, spending so much time with a tone bar and letting my finger muscles get lazy was brought home to me a few weeks ago when I picked up a 12-string guitar for the first time in many months and found myself rattling all over the place. I've always played a 12-string in preference to a 6-string and never had any problem before. As they say, if you don't use it you lose it.

Tim Fleming · Post by **Tim Fleming** » 24 Jun 2010 8:54 am

I bought my first pedal steel (in 1989) because I was completely mystified by the instrument. I had played lap steel and bottleneck guitar in the past and was familiar with bar-slants etc., but when hearing the pedal steel couldn't figure out how this "impossible" music was being created.
After seeing a steeler on Austin City limits play a solo (camera on hands only) I had to acquire one to de-mystify it - it was only then when I learned about the pedals/levers and thier function.
I find the instrument so fascinating that I don't think I've picked up the six-string more that a dozen times since then!

Oh, and it must be strange using those canned tortillas

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 24 Jun 2010 2:39 pm

I dunno. I learned to play the guitar on bluegrass licks. Since most of those licks don't really transpose to the pedal steel I always approached the steel as a whole 'nother' beast. The main problem now seems to be that I play the guitar a lot less frequently now that I play the pedal steel a whole bunch at the present time. As I can't play the pedal steel all that well, have forgotten to practice my guitar and my voice is not what it once was...I suppose that I should just get back to tending to my basil, on account of I make great pesto.
Duncan