Designing a new PSG: Best TUNING KEYS?

[Per Berner]

Locking tuners are great for regular guitars, but on a pedal steel there's no room to turn the locking wheel on the Schaller/Sperzel style.

In the Gotoh catalog they seem to have locking tuners that lock by inserting a tiny allen key through the tuner; that would work on a steel guitar!

I've also seen some people claim that locking tuners could be bad for string breakage, as the holes in the string posts usually have sharper edges than normal string posts. Don't know if there's any truth in it, though.

I have Schallers and Sperzels with thumbwheel locking mechanisms on two of my Telecasters. Both work fine, but the Schallers are better finished, have a more distinct feel and are a bit easier to operate. They save a lot of time!

[J D Sauser]

Buy machine tuners that you know will be around for decades. There's nothing worse than an excellent tuner that's so nonstandard that you have to replace all of them when one of them develops a fault. For that reason I would recommend Grovers. I can't see them ever disappearing.

A wise suggestion. Will keep that in mind.

J.D., there is a knob on the back that tightens the string in the hole. They save a lot of time because you put the string through the hole, tighten up the knob and clip and start winding. A very cool design.

Thanks Danny. Now, WHERE on the "back" is the locking nut located? Is it rather on the "side" opposite to the string shaft (where usually the logo would go)?
IF so, I wouldn't be able to use them as there would be no access to that part of the tuning machine... I will be using something which could look like a "Fender" tuner pan. One only sees the tuner key and the string shaft.

Thanks! ... J-D.

[John Billings]

Trim-Lok
This is the ultimate in tuning keys. The locking feature eliminates the need for multiple string wraps, and trem users no longer need a locking nut that deadens string sustain and all annoying Allen screws and wrenches (added weight). Tired of tying strings? This is the answer. This model is proven to hold strings tightly, allowing the guitar to stay in tune to improve playing enjoyment. The Trim-Lok is a mechanical type locking system that can be used on ANY guitar, including non-trem or acoustic.

Here's how Trim-Lok works:
The Trim-Lok is a mechanical locking system. Unscrew locking knob until locking pin inside string post clears string hole.

DO NOT REMOVE KNOB, AS IT MAY RESULT IN LOSS OF LOCKING PIN AND DESTROY THREADS ON LOCKING KNOB SCREW AND MAY NOT SCREW ALL THE WAY IN TO LOCK STRING POST. THIS WILL VOID WARRANTY!

Now, insert string into hole and pull string all the way through post until tight, while holding string screw locking knob in until string is locked to post. Do not over-tighten; finger tight will do. Then, tune to pitch (Approximately 1/2 turn with tuning button). You should be in tune; cut excess string and repeat the process for remaining strings

REMEMBER, there is NO TYING or WINDING of the string on the Sperzel Trim-Lok, which stabilizes tuning. There is less stretching of the string because you have taken the slack out by pulling tightly when starting. Also, string does not have to seat itself.

[Rick Winfield]

I would go "keyless", but...I can't find any information on the "purchase of", or "development of" this system.
as always,
Clueless, but getting there
Rick

[Per Berner]

None of these 3 would work on a steel guitar:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... hines.html

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... uners.html

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... hines.html

these lock automatically:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... uners.html

these might work:

http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat= ... 400a9b1aeb

[J D Sauser]

Again, thanks to all for your continued input!

Rick, believe me, I share your fascination for key less guitars. The first prototype using my current main approach was key less. But currently I just want to try to do it all with in a "standard" keyed arrangement. That does not exclude that I may later redirect my efforts on a key less design.


John: The Sperzel Trim-Lok would probably be ill suited for a PSG design for the restricted access of the lateral locking nut:

<-- there's the nut!

Similarly, the Gotho Locking Tuner Per suggested as potentially possible, is actually again not, as it's locking nut is a screw in axis on the string shaft; easy to access on a standard guitar where the string shaft usually sticks OUT, away from the head and thus enjoys clear access, but NOT inside a PSG key head... actually impossible on string 5 & 6 (10 string) or 6 & 7 (12 string) as the posts are facing each other with almost no space in between.

I still fail to fully understand the Duesenberg Z-Tuner. Yet, with my design, it's out anyways.



Thanks! ... J-D.

[John Billings]

JD,
In my first post, I mentioned that problem, and suggested a different Sperzel tuner that does not use locking nutz.
"The locking tuners would work well on an S-10/12, but on a double-neck, the E 9th 10th string, and the C6th 1st string would probably be too close together to operate the locking wheel. However,,,, he has a new model that locks the string by friction,. and is very cool-looking, and available in lots of colors. They're his "Sound-Lok tuners. Scroll down to them on this page for a look-see and explanation;
http://www.sperzel.com/Models_Colors.asp

And, I think there's one company that does use Sperzels. Not sure which one that is though,,,,,,

[J D Sauser]

...

And, I think there's one company that does use Sperzels. Not sure which one that is though,,,,,,

Carter, new MSA... and some others.

... J-D.