bigsby/clinesmith style blade PU vs. horseshoe

Jon Nygren · Post by **Jon Nygren** » 24 May 2010 12:44 pm

Have any of you guys played/play both guitars that use these pickups?

And to those of you who have- what do you feel are the differences and similarities?

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a clinesmith. Just curious to hear some opinions as I play a guitar with post war shoes most of the time.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 24 May 2010 1:48 pm

Let you know next week when MY clinesmith is supposed to show up.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 24 May 2010 4:19 pm

I've played 3 Clinesmiths pretty extensively (2 consoles and 1 lap steel) and probably a dozen Rickenbachers. I've had a few Rickenbacher gems--a Frypan and a B6--that were outstanding, and I played Rick Aiello's A-25 Frypan which is the cream of the crop, but I was not all that in love with the other 8 or 9. It's a real gamble, but when you get a good one it's pretty special.

The Clinesmiths have been very consistent in both tone and playability. Two things I can tell you about the Clinesmiths: they have a good amount of bite with body (it's not just superficial highs, but a real nice resonance that extends across a wider upper mid); and they are slightly microphonic, so the pickup sounds alive. It is definitely not a dead sounding pickup. I find the output to be slightly hot, not overwhelming to the point of overdriving your input of clipping, and I find it balanced nicely across the spectrum, aside from the little bump in the upper mids.

As far as the Rickenbachers, of the pickups I really liked, there was almost a compressed kind of sound where the attack was not quite immediate. It was very pleasing in some ways. I also found the frequency response of the ones I liked to be extended in both the highs and lows. The mids (from say 600 to 1k) seemed to have a slight dip, from what I recall, but it's been a while. The Rickenbachers sounded best with older amps (think early Epiphone and tweed Fenders) and maybe a little too bright with the blackface and onward Fenders.

Just my $.02 for what it's worth--may not be worth much more than that.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 24 May 2010 5:02 pm

When do I get to come over for my vulcan mind meld, Mike.

Jon Nygren · Post by **Jon Nygren** » 25 May 2010 4:46 am

Mike Neer wrote:
The Clinesmiths have been very consistent in both tone and playability. Two things I can tell you about the Clinesmiths: they have a good amount of bite with body (it's not just superficial highs, but a real nice resonance that extends across a wider upper mid); and they are slightly microphonic, so the pickup sounds alive. It is definitely not a dead sounding pickup. I find the output to be slightly hot, not overwhelming to the point of overdriving your input of clipping, and I find it balanced nicely across the spectrum, aside from the little bump in the upper mids.

.

Thanks for the description Mike, it helps alot. The part I bolded gets me excited- I love PU's that are a bit microphonic and I like the fact that the blade PU isnt too ovewhelming to your input...if there's one beef about the shoes in the guitar I have, it pummels the front end just a bit too much with some amps.

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 25 May 2010 7:58 am

Mike Neer wrote:I've played 3 Clinesmiths pretty extensively (2 consoles and 1 lap steel) and probably a dozen Rickenbachers. I've had a few Rickenbacher gems--a Frypan and a B6--that were outstanding, and I played Rick Aiello's A-25 Frypan which is the cream of the crop, but I was not all that in love with the other 8 or 9.

... so...

if I were say... looking for a Bakelite on ebay I could quite possibly end up with a horseshoe that doesn't sound totally awesome? I guess I kinda figured they were all gems.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 25 May 2010 9:17 am

I went through about 8 bakelite Rickys before I started playing Clinesmith steels. We are talking about 60 year old guitars here. The pickups may need a little juicing up sometimes. The bakelites are amazing sounding guitars. Something special about them that nothing really replicates. With that I found the sound, craftsmanship and playability of the Clinesmith to be vastly superior to even the most holy grail of pre war bakelites I owned. I have never owned a frypan though.

My feeling about pickups (and I build them) is that they only do so much. They are a small part of what makes a steel sound good. Because a horse shoe sounds good in a Ricky it does not mean it will make another steel sound like a bakelite. Think of pickups like microphones. Switching mics will not make Johnny Cash sound like Nora Jones.

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 25 May 2010 9:30 am

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Switching mics will not make Johnny Cash sound like Nora Jones.

I love that analogy!

As a side note, I checked out the Clinesmith site but didn't notice any lap steels there. Console and Weissenborn-style only from the looks of it.

I am looking for a good second lap steel to learn C6 on. I was thinking it would be worth my while to get something collectible I guess...

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 25 May 2010 9:36 am

J. Wilson wrote: ... so... if I were say... looking for a Bakelite on ebay I could quite possibly end up with a horseshoe that doesn't sound totally awesome? I guess I kinda figured they were all gems.

You absolutely could wind up with a dog. I've played a few that were (but only 2 or 3). I had one that I had rewound that still never sounded good to me.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 25 May 2010 9:45 am

As a side note, I checked out the Clinesmith site but didn't notice any lap steels there

He hasn't updated his site, but he makes lap steels. I'm expecting an 8 string from him any day now. There are pictures of his laps on this site if you do a search.

Mark Roeder · Post by **Mark Roeder** » 25 May 2010 10:50 am

I'd echo everything said about the Clinesmith. I bounce between a 53 Stringmaster ,Gibson Grande Console and the Clinesmith. The Fender and Gibson have things about them I like, but the Clinesmith is what I play the most.

Mark Roeder · Post by **Mark Roeder** » 25 May 2010 10:52 am

Jon
I don't know where in Wisconsin you are, but if your near Madison sometime look me up and you can play my Clinesmith till your satisfied.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 25 May 2010 8:42 pm

The bakelites are sure not all great sounding, but it's hard to figure out why. I've had 4, and the T logo 7 string I have now sounds quite good. The horseshoe seems to match a dense material in a guitar body. The wood types I built with the horseshoe didn't sound any better than having a DiMarzio in there.

Andrew Roblin · Post by **Andrew Roblin** » 26 May 2010 2:29 am

I've owned several Rickenbachers and Rickenbackers with horseshoes, including two bakelite instruments.

On receipt, all suffered from substantial degaussing of the horseshoe magnets. As a result, the pickups were quiet and the tone wasn't great. All sounded much better after regaussing.

J. Wilson · Post by **J. Wilson** » 26 May 2010 6:59 am

Andrew Roblin wrote:All sounded much better after regaussing.

Does this mean you recharged the magnets? If so, how do you go about doing this? What are the associated costs?

Also, when you say they sounded much better... do you mean 'awesome'? Or just 'better'? The Bakelites I have heard all sound incredible... but I guess no one posts a video of a Bakelite that sounds crappy!

Jon Nygren · Post by **Jon Nygren** » 26 May 2010 7:19 am

Rick Aiello used to do recharging/regaussing...not sure if he does anymore.

Many Fender trap and boxcar PU's suffer from the same problem- they have magnets that need to be zapped.

Andrew Roblin · Post by **Andrew Roblin** » 26 May 2010 8:18 am

I had the magnets regaussed. Bobbe Seymour has someone who does this. Mine were done by a Forum member who has been keeping a low profile. I'm going to respect his privacy.

After regaussing, all the pickups sounded awesome.

But not every Ricky steel has the bakelite magic. Some of the different body materials and instrument designs don't sound as fine as the bakelite. And my impression is that bakelite Rickys sound best with string-through design.

On some Ricky pickups the pole pieces don't line up well on the lowest string, resulting in less volume.

Thomas Ford · Post by **Thomas Ford** » 26 May 2010 11:20 am

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