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Topic: The moods of each key |
Delvin Morgan
From:
Lindstrom, Minnesota, USA
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 10 May 2010 12:04 pm |
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This is something I noticed early on, and would get blank stares from some players when I discussed it.
Certainly, you want to pitch pieces so that singers can handle them, but the key has everything to do with the mood of the song. I, and I am sure a lot of you, can recognize the key a song is being played in on the radio. I can't say I totally agree with the author on his descriptions of the moods for each key. but I'm sure that is what works for him.
I have also read that certain players associate keys with colors, John Hartford for one.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 10 May 2010 1:31 pm
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Since this is just one man's opinion, I wonder whether anyone has ever done this scientifically. It would be a fascinating experiment. I'd love to do it, if I can find time (and if it hasn't already been done to death)...
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 10 May 2010 1:41 pm
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Even if the concept is complete Malarkey (and I doubt that's the case) the descriptions are worth the price of admission, and I'd be delighted to produce music which lived up to any of them.
KP |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 10 May 2010 1:52 pm
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| To Jim's post: there is a well documented neurological phenomena called synesthesia that refers to people who "hear" musical notes as color. For these people, as well as those blessed/cursed with perfect pitch, different keys would definitely produce different feelings/colors/etc. |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 10 May 2010 2:12 pm
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I find this topic to be very interesting!
It almost makes me think of a "musical horoscope".
It needs to delved into by someone with insight to musical feelings. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 10 May 2010 3:57 pm
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O.K. I'll throw out a thought concerning this. If you want a song to convey a sense of urgency or excitement, don't put it the key of C. It'll come off too bland. B or E will be much better. Agree or disagree?
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 10 May 2010 4:02 pm
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
| To Jim's post: there is a well documented neurological phenomena called synesthesia that refers to people who "hear" musical notes as color. For these people, as well as those blessed/cursed with perfect pitch, different keys would definitely produce different feelings/colors/etc. |
Bill, yes, I'm aware of the synesthesia connection, though I don't know whether the colors 'seen' when hearing music are all the same by different people who have this experience (or might one 'see' red while another 'sees' blue?) Do you know?
The other thing (that I was originally referring to) is the mood evoked by different keys, such as those listed by the person quoted in the original poster's link above. I wonder how many people would agree with the same characterizatin of the key of Eb or B, etc. One could do an experiment where the same music is played back on a midi instrument in different keys and have a large number of people rate the piece for a variety of perceptual characteristics. I'd be very interested to know if there is any consistency, whether there are any trends by nationality, culture, language, musical experience, etc., etc.
I'd also be interested to know whether it depends on the instrument in question. In other words are the key-associations (if any) the same if you're playing it on piano, vs organ, vs flute, vs steel guitar?
I wonder if these experiments have already been done. If not, I'd really like to undertake them.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 10 May 2010 4:06 pm
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I'm afraid of depleted my entire store of synesthesia knowledge. 
I only know about it because I heard a guy on NPR talking about having it.
The study sounds fascinating. Don't know of any others like it. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 10 May 2010 4:16 pm
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I really enjoyed the read, but I think it's generalized to keys without taking into account all the corresponding chords within that key. I think there is a connection between emotion and the simple chords themselves. For example, a C#m (relative minor) within the key of E can evoke a certain feeling. Go to F#major within this key and you have a different emotion again. Another example is D (described as a triumphant key), but when you go to F#m and Bm minor within that key, the emotion changes. A Dm is usually considered sad, but within the key of G as a transitional chord to the IV, can be quite uplifting. So while I like the idea expressed in the link, I think the emotions of progressions and chords themselves need to be taken into consideration as well.
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Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 10 May 2010 4:19 pm
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Chris, good points. That's why I like my idea of having the exact same piece played back in different keys on a midi-keyboard. All the chords will be transposed in their relative positions. You could also manipulate certain aspects, like having the track be identical but interpose a 6 minor chord to see it's effect on perception. You'd probably need a huge sample size to pick up that difference though. Maybe not...
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 10 May 2010 4:54 pm
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This is a great idea, Jim, and it would certainly cover all the variables within the keys. I would like to see these results for sure. I think the elements of emotional reactions to keys are at the heart of why people connect with music. In a way it is very obvious, yet it is not taken into consideration as much as you would expect.
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Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 10 May 2010 5:28 pm
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| I think this whole "different moods" business goes back to previous tuning systems where the harmony was marginally different from key to key. |
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Mark Carlisle
From:
Springville CA
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Posted 10 May 2010 6:34 pm
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Anyone remember the scene the "rockumentry" Spinal Tap where Nigel Tufnel, played by Christoper Guest, tells Rob Reiner he is is working on a song in the key of Dm-"the saddest of all keys.."
I've had a lot of experience as most of us have had transposing charts for singers, mostly American Songbook material. Some of those old charts/tunes just don't sound as good when they are moved to another key-or is it just my imagination? |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 10 May 2010 7:01 pm
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[quote="Chris LeDrew"]I really enjoyed the read, but Ie[[quote]quote][quote] [quote]think it's generalized to kys without taking into account all the corresponding chords within thkey
That is an interesting observation, but for me, it has everything to do with the tonal center, without so much regard to the structure of the changes. I guess we're getting into evidence that there is something to this, but different people are affected differently.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 10 May 2010 7:50 pm
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| Guy Cundell wrote: |
| I think this whole "different moods" business goes back to previous tuning systems where the harmony was marginally different from key to key. |
This article linked to in a recent thread discusses this point:
http://www.slate.com/id/2250793/pagenum/all/ |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 11 May 2010 3:43 am
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I've done a fair amount of research into this for a novel I'm writing, and this assertion has been echoed over the centuries by many a great mind. One problem between relative and absolute mood invocation is that the base tuning notes have changed over the years - "A" has been anywhere from 425 to 460 Hz. Another problem is that no one agrees on what's what, besides minor=sad, major=happy.
The field is broadly known as "psychoacoustics", and two good books are "This is Your Brain on Music" by Daniel Levitan and "Music, the Brain and Ecstasy" by Robert Jourdain. My feeling is that tonal mood is instrument (and player)-specific. A six-string guitarist will find D minor sad, because of the Phrygian mode associated with the open A string and the Locrian mode associated with the open E's. A Bb horn player will find Bb to be the home key, and therefore the associated "mixolydian mood" in a piece written in the home key would be in F. His "saddest key" might be G minor... etc.
Pianos are obviously "in" C, a huge amount of violin-specific music is written in G and D, and the cumulative effect of hundreds of thousands of hours of listening has to have shaped all of our brains to "know" what's right, wrong, normal, weird, moody, evil, happy and so forth. One could easily go off on a tangent about what it means that Hendrix, SRV, Yngwie Malmsteen and many others chose to play in Eb rather than E... is it the end times?  |
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