What is it (Sho-Bud "Monster")?!?!?!

Ron McNuss · Post by **Ron McNuss** » 24 Apr 2010 7:23 am

Good morning,

I've recently seen some very interesting pictures of what appears to be an old Sho-Bud single with 16 (?!?!?!) strings:

Now, I would have thought this to be someones unique home-brew rig, that is UNTIL I saw this video on YouTube, where Shot Jackson has one (apparently their latest model double-neck) that he calls "The Monster", with double strings on one neck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIRVlUSrgYc

I've never seen one of these before, so this has pequed my curiosity to say the least. So, does anyone have any history on this model of Sho-Bud? Anyone ever play one? When were they made? How many were made? Any reasons they didn't catch on (other than obvious technical ones)? I'll bet it has a unique sound to say the least...

I assume it was probably similar to a 12-string standard guitar (pairs of strings with the same note, an octive higher on the lower strings, then the same note on upper ones), but I'll bet there were tuning difficulties on the string pairs that were an octave apart and different gauges on the same raise/lower, eh?

Any information would be most welcome...

Thanks!

Ron

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 24 Apr 2010 8:35 am

I have seen a few of these in pictures im not sure if this would be considered a monster or not.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 24 Apr 2010 11:10 am

They were 8-string tuning guitars with double-strings like a 12-string guitar. Sho~Bud made a few of these behemoths, all permanents I believe, in the 60's. Mike Cass and I delivered a guitar we called "The Mothra" to Chas Smith one long-ago year at ISGC, an 11-11-16 triple neck monstrosity that I'm sure Chas still owns. Without a doubt the heaviest steel guitar I've lifted!

I recall listening to the Grand Ole Opry on the radio one night in (as I recall) 1964, and Roy Acuff announced "here's Harold Rugg playing his 16-string Sho-Bud instrument," but I can't recall what tune he played. I did have it on tape...reel-to-reel in those days... but God knows where that tape is now, and it's probably rotted away, wherever it is.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 24 Apr 2010 2:56 pm

i have only seen a few shobuds like the one above.One time i heard that in the early sixties shobud built several like this one but this is the only recent picture of one i have seen.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 24 Apr 2010 9:55 pm

Jimmy Day had a Triple-Neck Sho-Bud with a 16-str. set up on the 3rd. neck. One apparent problem was picking two-strings side-by-side and hitting them both with just one finger-pick. I don't think he played it for any length of time, but; I think he may have recorded at least once with it. I don't think I ever heard this design played that I am aware of! Also, from what I heard, his greatest response to it was to remove the strings with a side-cutters! They also did not have roller-nuts!

Ryan Barwin · Post by **Ryan Barwin** » 25 Apr 2010 1:10 am

Does it have 16 individual changer fingers? Or does it have 8 changer fingers, with one for every 2 strings?

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 25 Apr 2010 6:35 am

I must say, I can't see it in my mind, but; I'm inclined to think it had 16 narrow fingers, which would also require 16 fine-adjustment screws.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 25 Apr 2010 9:24 am

does anybody have a picture of the jimmy day triple neck shobud.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 25 Apr 2010 10:33 am

I think it was either scraped or the 16-neck was replaced! From what I heard, he sure didn't like it much! I'm sure if anyone could have played it, he could have!

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 25 Apr 2010 1:09 pm

This is the 16 string changer and keyhead from my 11-11-16 Permanent, that I intend to rebuild this year, in all of my spare time...

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 25 Apr 2010 1:26 pm

was the jimmy day steel eight or ten string does anyone know if there were any more steels like the jimmy day one made.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 25 Apr 2010 3:10 pm

Chas!

Thanks for posting those pics. So,, it's an 8 string tuning using double courses right? Strings that aren't pulled are using a single roller on the bridge, and strings that are pulled are using the split/skinny fingers? Actually, they should work well, except for one thing; timing the pulls. I'm thinkin' that a pull would start with the pair of strings in tune, then go out of tune during the pull, then back in tune at the end of the pull? (another question mark) We could probably eliminate the problem today, with our multi-holed bellcranks. Am I thinkin' straight? Or completely off base?
JB

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 25 Apr 2010 4:03 pm

You would have to use two strings of the same gauge or you would never get the pedals in tune. Note the pull rod holes in the bottom of the fingers.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 25 Apr 2010 6:43 pm

I'm thinkin' that a pull would start with the pair of strings in tune, then go out of tune during the pull, then back in tune at the end of the pull

John, I honestly don't think it matters. The amount of time that they would be "out of tune" is pretty small and part of the "allure" of 12-string guitars and what makes them sound "bigger", I think, is the slightly out of tune-ness.

Without launching into a dissertation on in-tune, out of tune, part of what makes an orchestra sound so rich and interesting, besides the 84 players, is they aren't all in tune with each other.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 25 Apr 2010 6:51 pm

I don't know how it would work on steel but I experimented with a HipShot B bender on an electric 12 string solid body guitar once, pulling both unison B strings up to C# and it pretty much pulled in tune. I got the idea from a post Mike Perlowin put on a Forum somewhere, maybe this one. Anyway, it should work OK for steel too. It'd probably be better in tune if the guitar had a keyless headstock so there'd be the same string length behind the nut......JH in Va.

Steve Alonzo Walker · Post by **Steve Alonzo Walker** » 26 Apr 2010 2:38 am

Buddy Charleton Used it on some Ernest & Loretta albums. I always wondered why his Steel sounded strange.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 26 Apr 2010 5:22 am

Jerry Hayes wrote:I don't know how it would work on steel but I experimented with a HipShot B bender on an electric 12 string solid body guitar once, pulling both unison B strings up to C# and it pretty much pulled in tune. I got the idea from a post Mike Perlowin put on a Forum somewhere, maybe this one.

I got the idea from Will Ray. But these are the same gauge strings, tuned in unison. Different gauge strings tuned in octaves would be a real problem.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Apr 2010 5:40 am

It's amazing what you can do to a '54 Stratocaster with just a few simple hand tools, isn't it?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 26 Apr 2010 9:05 am

Herb, that wasn't a strat. It was a Music Man Sabre. which was also made by Leo Fender. I converted it to a 12 string, and I must say it is a spectacular instrument that totally exceeded my expectations. I have an unconverted one too. Those Sabres were (are) great guitars, and I fail to understand why they are not being re-issued.

Getting back to the original subject, Did the changer pull both strings in tune? And has anybody else made a double stringed PSG?

It seems to me that with today's technology, such an instrument could be made with a far more accurate changer, but the pedals would be very stiff due to having to pull twice as many strings.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 29 Apr 2010 10:53 pm

In all fairness, Paul Warnik should be credited for giving the nickname "Mothra" to the guitar mentioned above by Herb.....long damm way from the hotel down the block to the ISGC, and the looks we got from passersby!
In retrospect, a cab ride wouldve been a better idea

Perlo: Buddy E once told me that the unison guitar he played on "Lily Dale" on the Cherokee Cowboys album entitled "Western Strings" was a single-neck Emmons(guess it would have had to have been a '64-ish 10 string wraparound body)that Big Ron fitted for him with a 12 or 16 string keyhead which hung out off of the left end of the body. In true Emmons fashion, Buddy decided to adorn the odd protuberance with a long, fuzzy raccoon tail

Wonder where that jewel ended up?

MC

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 25 Jan 2014 6:56 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:I got the idea from Will Ray. But these are the same gauge strings, tuned in unison. Different gauge strings tuned in octaves would be a real problem.

You've answered a question I've been thinking of for some time. I'm thinking of putting a Hipshot Trilogy on a Mountain Dulcimer with double courses, and I've been wondering if the courses will stay in tune when I work the levers. The reason why I want to do this is that the Mountain Dulcimer has a diatonic fretboard, so you can only play in two keys. With the ability to change the tuning at the flick of a lever the instrument will suddenly take on a lot more versatility.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 26 Jan 2014 9:55 am

FYI Alan's recent forum thread in "Pedal Steel" includes a photo of this very model accompanying a listing in the catalogue!

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=259489

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 26 Jan 2014 4:15 pm

Yes, I know. So where did it end up, and who's playing it nowadays?

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 26 Jan 2014 5:50 pm

Alan, I think I know the answer to your question about the 16 string Sho-Bud. I had this guitar for some time, but David Jackson wanted it back, so I traded it in on a new Jackson. It was good to see a photo of it in your old brochures, as far as I know it would have to be the same guitar as David said he only built one like that. What are the chances of getting some nice color copies of the brochure you have?

I gotta say this was a very beautiful old guitar, but near impossible to play, a true museum piece.

Will Cowell · Post by **Will Cowell** » 27 Jan 2014 2:55 am

When I saw Chas Smith's pictures I thought of the "alien artifacts" pics from the Roswell thing. "Guys, we know the aliens had antigravity in their steels. But this is all we could retrieve from the spaceship. Your task is to duplicate it."