Weissenborn/Knutsen/Kona body shape

Manfred Nabinger · Post by **Manfred Nabinger** » 18 Apr 2010 2:50 pm

This auction on German ebay is already closed but it may be still interesting because the guitar which was sold seems to be pre WWI. Instruments like these may have inspired Knutsen or Weissenborn when they conceived the body shape of the guitars they built:

Link to expired auction on eBay Germany.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 18 Apr 2010 3:11 pm

That's very interesting, never seen one of those before...

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 19 Apr 2010 2:00 am

Fascinating! I am jealous of whoever bought that - would love to hear what it sounds like!

Vielen Dank (many thanks) for posting!

Fred

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 19 Apr 2010 6:57 am

I'd rather own one of Manfred's guitars, to be honest. : )

Manfred Nabinger · Post by **Manfred Nabinger** » 19 Apr 2010 11:15 am

In fact I have some old German guitars which have about the same age as this SONORA. They all are ladder braced, have pin bridges, spruce tops and maple necks and use fretwire as a bridge insert. They sound great when played with a bar in open tuning. But it has to be a very light bar, because you only can put extra light strings on these instruments. Some people put stronger braces under the tops and get a very impressive tone.
The SONORA may even sound better because of the round back and the special body shape.
OTWIN, a German guitar manufacturer who copied Gibson guitars in the 20s and 30s, listed three different (hollowneck) Weissenborn copies in their catalogue. I have never seen one of them but was told one was sold on ebay som years ago.

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 19 Apr 2010 11:43 am

Manfred, a friend in France once visited a music store (or a luthier, can't remember) in Lyon who told him about a German luthier who was building acoustic lap steel guitars in the 1920s-30s and had to stop when Hitler came to power (I guess as the music they were associated with has deemed "degenerate" by the nazis - this is interesting as Tao Moe was touring Nazi Germany with his Hawaiian show quite a lot). Do you know anything about that? Could it be Otwin?

I am very fascinated by the early days of Hawaiian guitar in Europe - the Selmer/Macaferri "Hawaïenne", these mysterious German Weissenborn-style guitars. I hope to one day come across a 1930s Swedish Levin Hawaiian guitar.

Thanks for this thread! Could you possibly scan the Otwin catalog lap steel pages and post here? That would be great!

Fred

Chris Drew · Post by **Chris Drew** » 19 Apr 2010 1:06 pm

Thanks for posting about this fascinating guitar!

Looks like a "Lute-inspired" carved soundhole/rosette, to match that bowed back which looks kinda like an old European bowlback Mandolin.

Like Fred I'd be very interested to see this catalogue....

I'm always on the lookout for any information about early hollowneck guitars... In particular anything about European builders...
I recall seeing a photo of one with distinctive fret-markings (the position dots were "on" the fret-lines) and perhaps an unusual peghead shape somewhat like a cello...
I can't recall any name for the builder & spent a long time trawling the internet looking for it again when researching material for the history page of hollowneck.com, but no luck!
I wish I'd grabbed that image & info at the time!
Maybe this is one of these Otwin guitars?...

Manfred Nabinger · Post by **Manfred Nabinger** » 19 Apr 2010 1:53 pm

Here is

- the Otwin-Weissenborn as pictured in their catalogue
- an Otwin with Hawaiian bridge
- a Placht-guitar lute from Vienna, 1928,sold on ebay USA last year

I am very interested in anything about Hawaiian guitars made in Europe. I have a french Gélas Hawaiian and some German Hawaiians from the late 20s. These were stadard guitars with a special metal tailpiece which also served as a height-adjustable bridge.-
I think that the history of "Hawaiian" music is more or less US history, if you concentrate on recordings, musicians etc. and music business in general. But if you look at the music itself (and maybe this also applies to the instruments ) there are connections to Asia, to Mexiko, to Portugal and also to Austrian/German music. In the late 19th century Hawaiians knew the waltzes from Vienna very well, queen Lilioukalani is said to have composed Aloa Oe (and many other songs) on an Austrian zither (and the Hawaiian guitar is in fact a fretless zither).

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 19 Apr 2010 4:03 pm

Makes me want to go on an EU pawn shop road trip.

Manfred, do you know what hear the Otwin catalogue is from?

Thanks!

Fred

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 19 Apr 2010 4:14 pm

I've seen illustrations of several guitars with a body of that shape dating back to the 1700s, but they all had regular necks like the one on auction. What separates out a Weissenborn is the extension of the body cavity into the neck, not the shape of the body per se.

Manfred Nabinger · Post by **Manfred Nabinger** » 20 Apr 2010 4:02 am

The Otwin catalogue seems to be from 1925/26 (I have only scans missing thge front page). Otwin means Otto Windisch. The label was still in use in the seventies and could be found on guitars and mandolins made in the GDR.
The hollowneck-construction seems to be another Vienna special. You find it about as early as 1830 on harp guitars. Chris Knutsen used this design and combined it with the body shape of older guitar-lutes like the Sonora when he conceived his Hawaiian guitars.
The hollowneck on harp guitars was only for the bass strings which are not fretted. Now you have a Hawaiian guitar which also is not fretted, so you can use this hollow-arm design on it.
Or, much easier: you have a guitar which is played like a zither. The zither is all hollow and projects surprisingly well regarding its humble dimensions, so why not build an all hollow guitar (nearly as thin as a zither)?

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 21 Apr 2010 10:47 am

Wow, very cool old piece. The headstock is very interesting too, not quite, but it almost reminds me of some of the designs seen on the bow of an Hawaiian outrigger.

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