As Brad noted:
"And I gotta admit, Buddy sure has some gorgeous sounding tones thru his all-transistor Peavey amps from back in the '70s."
I'd have to agree 100%, which begs the question: "How did Buddy manage to get this tone without using tube amps?" Does any one know what amps was Buddy playing at that time and if he used tubes in some sort of pre-amp as Brad also suggested might give a better tone to SS amps. ( "I've found that for "clean" sounds, a hybrid setup with tubes in the preamp and transistors in the power amp, that the preamp tubes truly have a great benefit.") Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it's not "all in the hands" stevet
Tube VS. Solidstate
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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steve takacs
- Posts: 5499
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Gary Stevenson
- Posts: 324
- Joined: 18 Sep 2006 12:01 am
- Location: Northern New York,USA
I have a modded Peavey 30 tube amp,but I use Brads Black Box before the stomp boxes. I have tried straight to the stomp boxes into the amp and found with the Black Box first, I had much better tone and in my opinion it drove the St/boxes better.I play with a Rock band and have no problem keeping up with their new Fenders and Crates.I do mic the amp to the board also.
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Len Amaral
- Posts: 4818
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Rehoboth,MA 02769
I find Brad's Revelation preamps, Tonic Preamp, Black Boxes and Classic preamp very flexible with all applications.
I have been using the Roland GP-100 preamp processor for quite a while with the COSM technology that has a "black face" modeling setting. By itself it's OK but put a black box in front of it and it becomes a different tone tube animal. The Classic preamp into a TC Furlong 15" split cab is sweet. Fun stuff and nice vibes.
Lenny
I have been using the Roland GP-100 preamp processor for quite a while with the COSM technology that has a "black face" modeling setting. By itself it's OK but put a black box in front of it and it becomes a different tone tube animal. The Classic preamp into a TC Furlong 15" split cab is sweet. Fun stuff and nice vibes.
Lenny
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Dave Grafe
- Posts: 4457
- Joined: 29 Oct 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Hudson River Valley NY
- Contact:
While there is no doubt that I absolutely love the sound and "feel" of the little black-face Vibrosonic that I have been using in rehearsal and occasional recording sessions there is no way that any tube amps available to me for steel or bass - including the Fender Bassman, Twin Reverb and Dual Showman - have the power to keep up with an amplified band on stage without putting a mic on the amp, which is often not practical in a club environment. Add to that the immense weight per watt of a tube design and the scale is tipped irreversably towards SS amps for my forseeable working future.
While there is a definite, scientificly demonstrated difference in the harmonic content of the inherent distortion artifacts of the different amplification systems, I happen to really like the SS Randall, Evans and Webb amps that I have played through, using both my ShoBud (with stock P/U) and Emmons (with George L's). If I want more perceivable "warmth" and texture from the Emmons I add Brad Sarno's Black Box to the chain, although I have never found the need to do so with the 'Bud.
Because it involves human brain functions, what we hear is very, VERY subjective. I can speak from recent experience in that one night the gear will sound great and the next morning the same gear in the same room with the same settings sounds completely wrong and I can't figure out how to fix it. If I turn if off and walk away for a few hours when I come back it will have fixed itself every time. I am pretty much convinced that if I have a tone problem it is with in my hands and my brain (no surprise there!) and not in my gear. It might also be worth noting that our hearing is affected by everything we eat and drink, and that the muscles that control our ears' ability to protect itself from overly loud sounds are the very first things to get sloppy with the entry of alcohol into the bloodstream. This phenomenon is ample fodder for another post altoghether which I shall save for another day.
This being said, for those who have a few minutes to invest in personal scientific edification, not to mention copping a great laugh or two, check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
The bottom line IMHO: play what you like regardless of what anybody else does or tells you to do and PLEASE try not to get too drunk to hear what is really going on
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While there is a definite, scientificly demonstrated difference in the harmonic content of the inherent distortion artifacts of the different amplification systems, I happen to really like the SS Randall, Evans and Webb amps that I have played through, using both my ShoBud (with stock P/U) and Emmons (with George L's). If I want more perceivable "warmth" and texture from the Emmons I add Brad Sarno's Black Box to the chain, although I have never found the need to do so with the 'Bud.
Because it involves human brain functions, what we hear is very, VERY subjective. I can speak from recent experience in that one night the gear will sound great and the next morning the same gear in the same room with the same settings sounds completely wrong and I can't figure out how to fix it. If I turn if off and walk away for a few hours when I come back it will have fixed itself every time. I am pretty much convinced that if I have a tone problem it is with in my hands and my brain (no surprise there!) and not in my gear. It might also be worth noting that our hearing is affected by everything we eat and drink, and that the muscles that control our ears' ability to protect itself from overly loud sounds are the very first things to get sloppy with the entry of alcohol into the bloodstream. This phenomenon is ample fodder for another post altoghether which I shall save for another day.
This being said, for those who have a few minutes to invest in personal scientific edification, not to mention copping a great laugh or two, check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
The bottom line IMHO: play what you like regardless of what anybody else does or tells you to do and PLEASE try not to get too drunk to hear what is really going on
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Michael Johnstone
- Posts: 3841
- Joined: 29 Oct 1998 1:01 am
- Location: Sylmar,Ca. USA
The thing I find lacking when trying to play pedal steel thru a tube amp like a blackface Fender - even one with 100 watts and a 15" speaker is the lack of comprensive EQ. The one time in recent years I got a tolerable midrange sound out of a twin was when I got stuck with one on a tour in Europe and I happened to bring a MXR 10 band graphic to put in front of it. I think if someone built a 100+ watt dedicated steel guitar tube amp with the kinds of appointments and EQ typically found on a modern SS steel amp I'd like it just fine. You'd still have to hassle with keeping it in tubes tho - and it'd be heavy...
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Dave Grafe
- Posts: 4457
- Joined: 29 Oct 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Hudson River Valley NY
- Contact:
I dunno the "whys" of the dif, but I still seem to be one of a few to prefer a dual SS/T setup.
Last night I had my Blues Jr BACK, and they hadn't even plugged it in at the crack house or hock shop..
I had it on the amp stand, with all the bass cut and actually a few highs. 15 watts, loud enough for most gigs I get called to do, and some of them are pretty big. That's just the highs mind you.
Below it on the floor was the Frontman65r. Bass bass all the way up and treble cut totally.
Actually I don't think the FM "compresses" like the Nvl 112s, but I know that it's a better thing to have the highs separate when the lows compress, as they are wont to do with PSG.
Donnie Simmons sat in with us last night and said it wa UNBELIEVABLE what that Blues Jr was putting out. ( I didn't show him the Frontman behind my chair...)
Like I said, the weak points of Tube amps seem to be the lows, and the weakness of Solid state seems to be compressing the highs when called to do so by maybe lingering or concurrent lowhz signals.
I played with a guy that had an amp made by a guy in Eugene or note ( I think he had something to do with Matchless), that had a duplex amp controlled by a foot pedal swivel. It was the neatest thing...
Anyhow. Back to gettting ready for the gg and the Stonewall work CD...
We're playing Jollies in a month Ken if you want to fly out...
EJL
Last night I had my Blues Jr BACK, and they hadn't even plugged it in at the crack house or hock shop..
I had it on the amp stand, with all the bass cut and actually a few highs. 15 watts, loud enough for most gigs I get called to do, and some of them are pretty big. That's just the highs mind you.
Below it on the floor was the Frontman65r. Bass bass all the way up and treble cut totally.
Actually I don't think the FM "compresses" like the Nvl 112s, but I know that it's a better thing to have the highs separate when the lows compress, as they are wont to do with PSG.
Donnie Simmons sat in with us last night and said it wa UNBELIEVABLE what that Blues Jr was putting out. ( I didn't show him the Frontman behind my chair...)
Like I said, the weak points of Tube amps seem to be the lows, and the weakness of Solid state seems to be compressing the highs when called to do so by maybe lingering or concurrent lowhz signals.
I played with a guy that had an amp made by a guy in Eugene or note ( I think he had something to do with Matchless), that had a duplex amp controlled by a foot pedal swivel. It was the neatest thing...
Anyhow. Back to gettting ready for the gg and the Stonewall work CD...
We're playing Jollies in a month Ken if you want to fly out...
EJL
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John Billings
- Posts: 9344
- Joined: 11 Jul 2002 12:01 am
- Location: Ohio, USA
Just 2 left at $1,990.00 and shipping (PayPal fees are extra at 3.2 percent). See the post above for a link with lots of pictures and more info.
Comes with D2F cover. We are doing a prototype 212 model and taking that up to Nashville for a test ride at the Station Inn on the 19th! It will have 2-12" SICA premium light speakers.
That will add about 4 pounds to the amp, around 50 lbs for the 212 model.
Comes with D2F cover. We are doing a prototype 212 model and taking that up to Nashville for a test ride at the Station Inn on the 19th! It will have 2-12" SICA premium light speakers.
That will add about 4 pounds to the amp, around 50 lbs for the 212 model.
Last edited by Ken Fox on 3 Apr 2010 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Billings
- Posts: 9344
- Joined: 11 Jul 2002 12:01 am
- Location: Ohio, USA
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=
Good music links there by Larry Bell.
Yes, I am waiting to get the last 2 sold and also have one on the hands of terry Bethel that needs to be paid for or returned pretty soon! Once we get at least two more paid for I will order parts for the second run of at least 12. I also am out of the 410 amps (1954 Bassman clone). I want to order that at the same time.
As we work out of our funding, not the bank, we have to move a little slower than some folks!
Good music links there by Larry Bell.
Yes, I am waiting to get the last 2 sold and also have one on the hands of terry Bethel that needs to be paid for or returned pretty soon! Once we get at least two more paid for I will order parts for the second run of at least 12. I also am out of the 410 amps (1954 Bassman clone). I want to order that at the same time.
As we work out of our funding, not the bank, we have to move a little slower than some folks!