Fighting 12th fret harmonics

Shaun Swanson · Post by **Shaun Swanson** » 20 Mar 2010 3:40 pm

I can get a nice tone out of anywhere on the neck except the 12th fret. The natural harmonics of that position fight the picked tone resulting in a 'plunk' sound. After the plunk, what little sustain there is sounds like I'm playing through a chorus pedal.

I'm playing a Carter Starter. I've played several different lap steels and never noticed the problem to be this pronounced. Is this something that stands out more on a pedal steel? Or is it something that happens more with student models? Is there any technique I can use to minimize the offending harmonic?

Thanks.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 20 Mar 2010 4:02 pm

Whenever you play at the 12th fret you have to hold the bar down with a little more pressure then usual and you must hold the fingers on your left hand (behind the bar) a little firmer down on the strings to keep them from resonating. That's what I do. Good luck, Don

Les Green · Post by **Les Green** » 20 Mar 2010 4:43 pm

This is a problem on most all guitars. I have 3, 2 MSA's and an Emmons. Same. Just do as Don suggests. One of those live with it deals.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 20 Mar 2010 4:52 pm

I have the same problem, only it's on 5th fret harmonics. 12th seems to come easier.
Advice?

Billy Tonnesen · Post by **Billy Tonnesen** » 20 Mar 2010 8:32 pm

Don is right. You have to put more downward pressure on your Steel Bar. The 7th fret sometimes picks up this sound. If you really want to hear how bad this sound is, put your Steel Bar on the 12th fret, raise all your fingers and thumb on your left hand, reach over and strum the strings in back of the Bar.

Joshua Grange · Post by **Joshua Grange** » 21 Mar 2010 5:31 pm

Trailing your left hand fingers to deaden the strings behind the bar (from your bar to the tuning pegs) is usually correct technique, and should be done just about always.
The exception is if you WANT to hear that cool chimey sound.
Listen to Mel Tillis' version of "I'm Tired" for an example.

By the way who is that steel player????

Anyways usually you'll want to deaden the strings.
I'm not sure about pressing harder though as the string tension at the 12th fret feels the softest and squishiest, and pressing harder can make tuning tricky. If you deaden it properly you wont have to worry about pressing any differently.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 21 Mar 2010 7:45 pm

My introduction to the pedal steel came from a very fine fellow name of Weldon Myrick who showed me how to spread the fingers of my left hand out behind the bar and across the strings behind it to damp them, said the wider I spread those back fingers the more control I would have. He was right, of course, and as Joshua explains that little technique will also eliminate those pesky harmonics that are bugging you....

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 21 Mar 2010 11:46 pm

Shaun,

On ALL fret positions dampen the strings by placing the pinky, ring, and index fingers firmly on the strings, behind the bar, at all times. With the 7/8ths 10 or 12 string bar, using this dampening technique, the bar weight combined with the light holding of the bar is sufficient downward pressure for all the frets. A light left hand is a good thing. I would not add downward pressure to resolve this tonal problem. Try fanning out the pinky, ring, and middle fingers until the tone you are after is achieved.

Paul

Jim Smith,

Thanks for the correction.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 22 Mar 2010 8:46 am

Paul, I believe you meant pinky, ring, and middle fingers.

Shaun Swanson · Post by **Shaun Swanson** » 22 Mar 2010 9:58 am

Yes, I am muting with my trailing fingers ever since I started lap steel years ago. But to my surprise when I got my first PSG last year my trailing fingers were no help on fret 12.

I was just wondering it this was one of the drawbacks of a beginning instrument.

Guess I'll have to live with it.

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 22 Mar 2010 12:04 pm

Try playing the steel without plugging into the amp. Listen to it acoustically. This is where you will really hear bad damping technique. I alway thought I had good left hand dampening until I did this. I realize now I have an arch in my ring finger such that it didn't always mute the intended strings. i have since changed to spread my fingers a bit.
BTW some players do indeed avoid playing at the 12th for that reason - Even with good technique you may get some cancellation.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 22 Mar 2010 12:57 pm

Shaun,

With all due respect, If you are hearing a chorus effect, the problem has to be in the left hand, not the guitar. I would not write it off as a guitar problem.

My guess is that the brighter tone of the pedal steel has amplified an existing bar habit. The darker tone and different scale lengths of lap steels are not as microscopic which is probably the reason it never bothered you before...The pedal steel exposes every nuance in our techniques. The pedal steel is an unforgiving beast.

I have found that my left hand needs some maintenance from time to time to avoid building up bad habits...... What size of bar are you using? A smaller bar could be limiting your ability to dampen the 10 strings properly. The twelfth fret overtones should not interfere or change anyones natural tone into a chorusing effect.....

PF

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 22 Mar 2010 9:33 pm

Shaun,

I've a Starter too, but never had this issue with mine. If you are hearing any unwanted harmonics, its most likely because you're not muting the strings behind the bar as others have mentioned. Harmonics can only be achieved if both sides of the node (the point of contact) are free to vibrate. If the bar is exactly at the 5th 7th or 12th fret, there are prime opportunities for these early partials to ring out. I think the suggestions so far have been helpful to all!

If its not your blocking, some musical instruments have one or more nodes or sweet spots of resonant frequency(ies) too, which may coincide with string nodes.

Besides palm blocking, check that a rod, some undercarriage part, a broken ball-end of a string, or crack in the body is not contributing as well. A piece of soft spongy foam with 10 string-spaced slots will dampen rod noise too, though the Starter isn't particularly noisy underneath. Move the steel around the room on different surfaces. Is it more pronounced on a wood surface compared to carpet?

Jim Pitman wrote:Try playing the steel without plugging into the amp. Listen to it acoustically.

Like Jim mentioned, just listen to the steel acoustically with no amp. Maybe try changing the spot on the strings where you pick, as well. If you pick exactly half way from the bar on any fret to the changer you can get harmonics. Try full chord sweeps across all strings from fret 11 to 12, 6 to 7, and 4 to 5 without the left hand damping to exaggerate the chorus effect at those harmonic nodes, then try it with left hand damping till it sounds good to you. You'll find the source of it one way or another! Good luck.

Clete

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 23 Mar 2010 7:25 am

Franklin wrote:Shaun,

With all due respect, If you are hearing a chorus effect, the problem has to be in the left hand, not the guitar. I would not write it off as a guitar problem.

My guess is that the brighter tone of the pedal steel has amplified an existing bar habit. The darker tone and different scale lengths of lap steels are not as microscopic which is probably the reason it never bothered you before...The pedal steel exposes every nuance in our techniques. The pedal steel is an unforgiving beast.

I have found that my left hand needs some maintenance from time to time to avoid building up bad habits...... What size of bar are you using? A smaller bar could be limiting your ability to dampen the 10 strings properly. The twelfth fret overtones should not interfere or change anyones natural tone into a chorusing effect.....

PF

Agreed..
I used the 12t fret "chorus effect" for years as a weird little variant.. I always did it by releasing my trailing fingers , and slightly increasing downward bar pressure..

It would seem to me to be an issue of how you are holding the bar, and muting with the pinky, ring and middle fingers.
Be careful you are not placing undue pressure directly on top of the bar, and not muting properly with the trailing fingers...
I have seen many inexperienced steel players placing a death grip on the bar, and actually pushing it down into the strings with a very stiff hand...
Think in term of "softness" in that left hand, and the muting fingers in back of the bar.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 23 Mar 2010 7:30 am

I wonder if maybe you are getting some sympathetic vibration of the strings between the roller nut and the tuning keys, over the key head. You can lay a folded up towel there to rule that out.