Ray Montee's interesting post to ''Chords for a 6 string...&

John Ed Kelly · From: Victoria, Australia

''REGARDLESS of what key you're playing in, but lets say, it's gonna be "F" on the 5th fret in c6th tuning: You start at fret five; go up five to Bflat; up two more to C/C7th and back to F on the fifth fret. You've now hit the three major chords that will be used in that specific key. WHO CARES, what notes are on what string on what fret? ''

A most interesting comment in my view. If I surmise correctly Ray, you play by patterns?

If so it equates to my playing of the clarinet - by patterns - and by muscle memory training. Quite dissimilar instruments obviously, but I have been teaching myself simple melodies using a vertical approach. By vertical approach, I mean using just one string as I don't know the names of the notes either, so playing (say) the first 2 bars of a melody and switching to another string - within the same of range of frets - is something I can't do.

To alleviate this I'm practicing basic scales using all strings (yeah, I KNOW this the correct way!), but my blocking is poor and results in numerous muddy notes however, so I'm using the ''try it and discard if necessary'' method to see what works for me.

Ray, it seems that you play by ear as do I with the clarinet (and now SG). Would you have any advice to offer me with regard to basic self teaching? At present I have this mental image of my SG having 6 clarinets staring mockingly up at me instead of 6 strings - in other words I have 6 different keys to learn at the one time just to get through one number.

I'd be interested to know of anyone else out there who eschews music notation and may be able to offer assistance to this fairly confused SG beginner.

Thanks in anticipation.

JK

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I'm amazed that ANYONE pays any real attention to what I've attempted to share with others during my 8-10 years here on the Forum. So much criticism has come my way that I had convinced myself that nothing I said had much/any value to anyone else.

You mention 'pattern playing' and I have indeed used that phrase to describe how I pickup a new, unfamiliar, song in a band environment. As long as I know what chords are likely to be in a tune, I have somewhat of a roadmap on which I can anticipate my travels. In reality, the bass (if properly played) or rythm guitar will give me the precise chord changes that are needed to be made, when and where. The pattern thinking process allows me to
anticipate what strings will be picked or slants to be used without any necessity for knowing the names of the notes individually or chordal-wise.

Actually, since I've learned to somewhat 'master' the C6th/A7th tuning as much as I feel compelled to, I prefer NOW to think of it as knowledgeable playing. I've studied and learned the fret board thoroughly (which is a must!) and now the fret board patterns on which I used to rely, now gives me a simple, non-confusing pathway down which to wander without any necessity for writing out sheet music or tab before the song can even begin.

Yes, I play by ear.......to a degree, however I hope that I can tell what correct notes to play and then do so, as opposed to some 'ear players' that merely go at it without that accurate musical knowledge and the outcome to any knowledgeable musician is often barely tolerable to the ear.

Sitting in with a group for the first or second time and having no idea of WHAT they're going to play until they start up.......and usually having to figure out what key they're playing in on my own, and then be ready to take my turn as it comes up, is what musicianship is all about....IMHO.

Hopefully this will help...........

Bill Hampton · From: Colorado, USA

I can't believe you would think people wouldn't want to listen to what you have to say Ray!
I'm a beginner and don't have a lot of musical knowledge, but the clips I've seen of your playing are incredible.
Anyone that plays that well has my attention when they speak. Please keep contributing to the forum.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Ray, I always appreciate your posts.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Ray, there's a lot of wisdom and experience in your posts. I always read and respect what you write even if I don't always reply to a given thread.

Mike Bagwell · From: Greenville, SC, USA

Ray,

I've heard you play, you're very good, so I read every post you make.

Mike

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Billy Gilbert · From: Texas, USA

Ray, that "barely tolerable to the ear" thing. I didn't know that you had heard me play. Laughing

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I'd like to take this moment to extend my heartfelt thanks to those of you that were kind enough to voluntarily submit your views of 'me'/my playing.

The older I get, the less confidence I'm finding that I have. Confidence must be a lot like one's hair; the older one gets, the less you have.

After the ugly remarks that I've had directed at me here on the SGF during recent weeks, I've lost nearly all confidence that I once took for granted.
Again, I appreciate your thoughtfulness....... It is truly appreciated.

Now.....YES, I had heard you play but I was going to let that slide by. (I'm joking!) It would be nice to get to hear you play. How about sending me an MP-3 or something?

John Ed Kelly · From: Victoria, Australia

''I've studied and learned the fret board thoroughly (which is a must!) and now the fret board patterns on which I used to rely, now gives me a simple, non-confusing pathway down which to wander without any necessity for writing out sheet music or tab before the song can even begin. ''

"Sitting in with a group for the first or second time and having no idea of WHAT they're going to play until they start up.......and usually having to figure out what key they're playing in on my own, and then be ready to take my turn as it comes up''

Thanks Ray,

Some questions for you if you don't mind.......

#1/ Apart from learning scales, what else did you do to facilitate your non-confusing pathway? It must have been a huge ''trial and error'' exercise in the beginning to master melodies? How about improvisation?

#2/ Seems pretty tough on a guest muso! Anyway, I'm doing a jazz clarinet job on Sunday - first one for a long long time - but I'm sure I'll be asked for tune selections and choice of keys - it's the done thing in jazz circles. If I don't offer any suggestions, I'll be expected to know what's called though.

John

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I never anticipated I'd be asked any kind of meaningful question. You realize, I'm sure, that this could subject you and me, to endless criticism for our discussion. But I'm game, if'n you are.

I discovered, if you will, pattern playing when I decided to write a little steel guitar instrumental entitled "Skippin' Around". I was about 14-15 years old. I had never practiced 'scales' at any time after I flunked guitar lessons. The light went on and I've simply relied on it.

I fully realize that those who really know music, find my comments to be very amatuerish but I'm confident it follows some kind of musical, technical talk. My song was in the Key of C (12th fret), and I found the majority of my beginning notes to lie on the 5th & 7th frets, on the first 3-4 strings. Hence, lacking the expertise to describe it in accurate musical terms, I've chosen to refer to it as 'pattern playing'. It all works out the same.

THAT was in the beginning.........

By studying Joaquin Murphy's HOT, single string runs, I found that he used this same basic chord formation for most of his stuff. Later, I determined that Jerry Byrd did likewise, lots of
use of the top 3-4 strings vs. runs of the same notes that otherwise would begin on the lower strings and extend up into the higher strings.

I've always found that playing the melody of any song is quite AN EASY TASK, if you take the time to learn the melody FIRST. Once you know the melody, what you play on the guitar will essentially fall right into place. Improvision is merely utilizing the melody notes, with slight alterations of the melody line with variable movements of the bar, like a vocalist will do with a 'teardrop' or 'slight yodel' in their voice....... Different picking, the use of a triplet run or staggered picking run or the use of different things such as this, can often give you plenty of versatility without realy having to change large amounts of actual notes/phrasing.

Lead guitar players often utilize little nursery rhymes incorporated into the chord structure to give them some improvising starting points.

Not explained well, I realize......but never made any claim to being 'a real musician'.

John Ed Kelly · From: Victoria, Australia

''By studying Joaquin Murphy's HOT, single string runs, I found that he used this same basic chord formation for most of his stuff''

I'm sort of getting your drift Ray and will endeavour to to learn melodies using more than one string at a time. You see, by playing up and down a clarinet in virtually a straight line means I am, in essence, working in just one dimension and this is what I have found the easiest on the SG. It's leading me almost nowhere though.

I'll take a look at some of your YouTube videos too, as well.

thanks again

John

(ps) I'm using Bob Dunn as my model, Joacquin Murphey is a bit beyond me unfortunately. In fact Bob Dunn is too, but one has to start somewhere.

Matt Berg · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Jerry Byrd once commented in essance that "there is so much music to be played "BETWEEN the FRETS".....to get stuck just playing fret positions is robbing one of their true potential?.......

Something to think about.......

John Ed Kelly · From: Victoria, Australia

''I'll go you one better--I have been listening to Billy Briggs and Cliff Carlisle--two very solid but not flashy players who were popular in their day but pretty forgotten now.''

Matt,

I have some Billy Briggs tracks recorded (1938 to 1951) with the ''Sons Of The West'' and the "XIT Boys", I don't have any Cliff Carlisle though.

Can you suggest some material I should check out?

Thanks,

John
[ps] A 4 CD boxed set of Milton Browne is arriving on Thursday - that's about another 100 or so Bob Dunn tracks for me to study - great!

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

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