6.8.10 string lap

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 4 Mar 2010 2:22 pm

Hi again
what is the differance between 6.8.and 10 string..apart from one has 6 strings and so on..
what are the advantage between them.( apart from strings )
I am thinking 9 notes E F G A B C D E F
most of what Ive seen on youtube and others, george boards, E.T.C
all seem to have 10 strings.
dose it make it easyer to play
Dose it give more scope,
I would be very greatful if some one could explain
thank you RdGs Paul

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 5 Mar 2010 8:10 am

The main difference besides the number of strings is the spacing between strings. Eight and ten string steel guitars have their strings closer together than six string guitars.
The main advantage to eight and ten string guitars is the additional strings allow for extended tunings, giving you the ability to play certain chords easier than you could on a six string guitar. Also with eight or ten strings you can have a wider range of notes.
I don't think it necessarily makes it any easier to play if you have more strings. It's up to the player and their choice of tuning.
Personally I have found that there is more than enough music in six strings to keep me busy for quite a while. I do plan on returning to my eight string Fender; perhaps I'll bring it with me to Dallas.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 Mar 2010 9:52 am

I started out with 6 strings, however, after going to the more complex tunings, I much prefer an 8 string guitar.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Mar 2010 9:59 am

I've played 12 strings, 8 strings, and 6 strings. For what I'm doing, 6 strings I've found to be best. It all depends on the type of music you are playing.

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 5 Mar 2010 10:58 am

thank you Brad Erv and Bill
I know on reflection was a sill question to ask.
But can I try and explain in my turms..
As a complete newbee I have looked at loads of site, links, of players (Ive lost count how many now )

They all seem to be playing at least 8 strings even the tuition sites..But now I realise its more of what you want to play !and as you say tuning of your choice,
Next question (when I eventualy can play )I want to play "country more the older stuff" so which brings the question of what I need to do this.

I am as well as trying to learn to play Im thinking along the lines of making my own, so do I go for 6 or 8 (to play "country "
which then poses the question what tunning to I need to play "country " and what scale length,

It get worse ..

I spoke to the supplier who called to ask if everything is ok with the lap i purchased..
They told me that if I wanted to play country I would need a pedal..and sent me a link to youtube someone playing country on a pedal..

sorry to complecate things so much just so much to learn.and as I already got one foot in the hole ive got to make up nfor lost time

Thank you for taking the time RdGs paul

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 Mar 2010 11:43 am

If you want to play "country" do some searching on YouTube for Faron Young, Carl Smith, Webb Pierce, Ernest Tubb, Marty Robbins, Ray Price and etc.
You will see that at the height of REAL country and western music most of the steel players were picking multi-neck Fenders and it is a rare occasion that these guitars weren't built with 8 string necks.
Take it from a steeler who has been at this game for 50+ years.

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 5 Mar 2010 3:36 pm

Erv Niehaus wrote:If you want to play "country" multi-neck Fenders and it is a rare occasion that these guitars weren't built with 8 string necks.
Take it from a steeler who has been at this game for 50+ years.

Thanks Erv..So Realy as I want to play "Country"
I would be better off with 8 strings, as you say

it is a rare occasion that these guitars weren't built with 8 string necks

and it is possible to play country on a lap..
Thank you RdGs Paul

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 6 Mar 2010 8:57 am

Paul,
Look around and see if you can't pick up the instructional book and cassette tape by Don Helms. It features 10 Hank Williams songs that Don played when he was with the Drifting Cowboys band. The course was compiled and edited by DeWitt Scott and might still be available from Scotty in St. Louis.
The course is written in the E13 tuning and played on an 8 string neck.
The course is called "Your Cheatin' Heart".

Jamie O'Connell · Post by **Jamie O'Connell** » 6 Mar 2010 12:04 pm

The Don Helms book now comes with a CD instead of cassette tape. Don Helms plays all the songs on the CD.

It is available right in the SGF store (click on Instruction at the top of this page).

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 6 Mar 2010 12:31 pm

Erv Niehaus wrote:Paul,.
The course is written in the E13 tuning and played on an 8 string neck.
The course is called "Your Cheatin' Heart".

Hi Erv...Ill have a look around the net see what I see.. Is the E13 tuning used for 8 string ?? It seems the more I get to learn the more I have to to learn.
Thanks again RdGs Paul

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 6 Mar 2010 1:28 pm

Just to make sure you are confused, Don Helms called his tuning E6, while the same tuning is given as E13 in the book: hi2lo G# E C# B G# E C# A. Given the context in the book I think this is a typographical error, as the tab gives E13 as hi2lo G# E C# B G# E D B. Only the bottom two strings change, and none of the arrangements in the book use those strings anyway.

I highly recommend that you get a copy of forumite Andy Volk's booklet Slide Rules, which is a handy reference on different tunings.

One nice thing about E6 is that it is easy to go back and forth from "high" C6: hi2lo G E C A G E C A, as used on the Cindy Cashdollar Western Swing instructional DVD's.

From Andy's book you'll notice that all of the eight-string versions of E13 given have the E note on top (same as the second string from E6 above). A lot of people feel that the high G# (or high G in C6) sounds a bit thin, although that is a key part of the Don Helms sound.

One popular version of E13 is Leon McAuliffe's: hi2lo E C# B G# F# D G# E. Dick Meis has a book of arrangements using a version of this tuning.

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 7 Mar 2010 4:50 am

[quote="Lynn Oliver"]
Just to make sure you are confused,

Hi lynn You have just done that alright...

let me read that an other 30 times and Ill get beck to you.. Paul
thanks RdGs

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 7 Mar 2010 8:22 pm

8 strings are adequate.

10 strings plenty. Tom Morrell's 10 string E13 is popular for western swing sounds.

I do have a 12 and it is way more than I need most of the time. But, I still find a way to use all those strings.

Consider stacking tunings. on my 12 lap steel I have strings 1,2,3 tuned to D,B,G
And strings 456789,10,11 tuned to C6/Am7. String 1 is D, tuned lower than string 3.
String 12 is a D, giving me an F6/Dm7 chord on the bottom strings; a pair of C6/Am7 chords in the middle, and a G chord on top.

Lots of intervals and string combinations.

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 8 Mar 2010 3:27 am

Ron
have I got this right..having 12 strings you are able to play peices in c6 but also be able to play peices written in E 13 and probley other combinations.. ( sorry im having trouble understanding this )
RdGs Paul

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Mar 2010 8:12 am

Paul,
I agree, the water is getting muddy.
Even with 50+ years experience with playing lap steel, when talk gets around to 10, 12 and who knows how many strings per neck, my head starts to hurt.
I think that there is an advantage to having 8 strings per neck versus 6, however, I feel any more than that is over kill. I kind of believe in the "KISS" theory.
Rather than complicate one neck, go multineck. That's the way the "real" county players did it.

Mark Roeder · Post by **Mark Roeder** » 8 Mar 2010 12:17 pm

I agree Erv, it's getting into more info than needed for beginer.
paul,I think the best idea was to go for the Don Helms course in hie tuning for a good country foundation and not worry about your other questions until you have had sometime on your instrument.

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 8 Mar 2010 2:56 pm

Hi Mark Erv

I feel you are both correct my own fault for asking .. But in my own defense as well as being inquisitive,
I was looking also to the future, as either making my own or buying,as to what would be best.
I was quite disappointing when the seller informed me that I wouldn't be able to play country on a 6 string..again in my own defense I dident know about the forum. ( so if I carnt do it on that then what can I do it on ) I looked on you tube I loved one vid ( I dont know if he is good or not but sounds good to my... but I dont think I would ever be able to afford a pedal...
so really that was the reasoning behind it..
But don't get me wrong every one has been so helpful and I have learned quite a lot..( as well as being confused ) I know I have said before but a big thanks to all
RdGs Paul

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 8 Mar 2010 5:20 pm

I am afraid I wandered off a bit given the context and intent of the thread.

I only wanted to point out that there are other POSSIBILITIES. I learned some of these methods when studying Hawaiian tunings.

I am talking about a single neck 12 string LAP STEEL; that fits in a gig bag and will travel on the airlines overhead... not a multi neck console that I see in your avatars with 16 or 24 strings. I seldom play more than 3 strings at a time.

Kinda like a piano. It has 88 keys, but you don't have to play them all at one time.

For this thread I recommend an 8 string lap steel, with a 6th tuning of your choice.

C6 is very popular, and E6 is popular for those Don Helms masterpieces. A6 is still popular.
Ron

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 9 Mar 2010 4:11 am

Hi Ron..dont worrie about wondering off..
I see the point you are trying to make
I think too that is what Ill prob do is settle for 8 string..at the mo that is..
but I think if i take a step back and have a look from the outside..
I have the 6 so once I learn to play that proply, I will know a lot more on what can be done on it, and what it is capabile of doing..
I expect a really good player of a 12 string lap, would be able to make a 6 talk to you, put the kettle on and make the coffie..
anyway at the rate I am learning at the mo, Ill be pushing the daisies up before I get there anyway.. Thanks RdGs Paul

Mark Roeder · Post by **Mark Roeder** » 9 Mar 2010 7:57 am

Paul

I know that alot of the "Don Helms" can be played on a six string if you tune your guitar to the top six strings of his tuning. You could be doing this while you think about your next guitar and it may give you answers to what you are questioning through experience. You may feel that you are acomplishing what you want without rushing into another guitar. I know from experience that alot of the fills are on the higher strings.

Paul DiMaggio · Post by **Paul DiMaggio** » 9 Mar 2010 9:06 am

From one newbie to another,my advice is;Learn to play your six string.If you can find a teacher,even if the lessons are intermittent,it will help you along in a major way.Pick one tuning,it doesn't matter which one,and learn it.Once you get a handle on one tuning,the other ones will be easier to learn.More strings just complicates matters.I found that out when, in an act of frustration, I bought an 8 string thinking it would be the cure. I realized immediately upon opening the box that it was a mistake. All I saw was a sea of strings. Keeping it simple works the best.

Paul Higgins · Post by **Paul Higgins** » 9 Mar 2010 9:43 am

Hi Paul
I know you are right, and my intentions are as you surgest.. I have a book to to be honest it is ok but a book dosent show you how ! I have ordered some dvd's but are going to be a while getting here..
The book is in C6 and the vids will be in C6 also so I guess I will be learning C6 to start
Teachers well thats a difficult one they want £150 for 4 hr lesson the exchange in your money $1.4 to the english pound + on top of that there would be 5 hrs driving..nothing local
I have been practicing loads over the last few days and getting no ware fast..but Ill keep going Thanks RdGs Paul