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Topic: Please educate me .. FLAC vs .mp3, mp4a, .ape, etc. formats |
Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 15 Feb 2010 10:13 am |
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| For purposes of listening on a computer or iPod, what is the real, appreciable, audible difference between files ripped from CDs or old LPs and saved as FLAC vs .mp3, mp4a, .ape, AIFF, etc. format? What's the difference in these various compression codecs? I notice that Flac flies are much larger. Is Flac a lossless format? Thanks. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2010 11:37 am
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One web site's definition:
"what is FLAC?
FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec, an audio format similar to MP3, but lossless, meaning that audio is compressed in FLAC without any loss in quality. This is similar to how Zip works, except with FLAC you will get much better compression because it is designed specifically for audio, and you can play back compressed FLAC files in your favorite player (or your car or home stereo, see supported devices) just like you would an MP3 file.
FLAC stands out as the fastest and most widely supported lossless audio codec, and the only one that at once is non-proprietary, is unencumbered by patents, has an open-source reference implementation, has a well documented format and API, and has several other independent implementations."
I have a bunch of FLAC's from the BLOG sites and they sound about as good as wav files which are also very huge. For my purposes I am very happy with the Windows Meida Player .wma files at 192kbps. A typical song in wma format is about 4.5 MB and sounds as good as the wav or flac file if your source is an LP. All three, wma, flac and mp3(at 320kbps) produce clear and warm sounding copies of vinyl LP's. I copy my LP's to the hard drive as .wav files (lossless) then convert them to wma files to save space.
Greg |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 15 Feb 2010 12:10 pm Re: Please educate me .. FLAC vs .mp3, mp4a, .ape, etc. form
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| Andy Volk wrote: |
| For purposes of listening on a computer or iPod, what is the real, appreciable, audible difference between files ripped from CDs or old LPs and saved as FLAC vs .mp3, mp4a, .ape, AIFF, etc. format? |
Little to none. Most often none. Much to the consternation of "golden ear" types, which are plentiful in audio circles and support the sale of $50 per foot cables, $500 styluses, and $5000 amplifiers.
Trust your own ears and do some blindfold tests.
Make Flac, wma, and mp3 versions of a half dozen songs with which you are highly familiar.
Keep the mp3s at 192 bit rate or higher and use the LAME encoder.
You would have 18 files. Load the 3 versions of one song onto your playback device and play back in random/shuffle mode. As you listen, make a note of differences you think you hear as the versions play. Play the song through 6 or 8 times. If you are in true shuffle mode, you might have played the Flac 5 times, the mp3 2 times, and the wma once. But you won't know this as you listen.
Repeat the process for the other 5 songs.
After you've gone through all 6 songs, compare your notes to the actual order of the versions as they were played randomly. Your playback device should be able to tell you the order in which the versions actually played.
Very very few people can consistently tell 192 bit or higher mp3s from a lossless source in a blindfold test. There are websites that go into this in detail. Many middle aged people can't detect 128 bit mp3s and use that as a default for portable playback devices. Dropping from 192 to 128 typically cuts file size by about 40%.
Take a look at hydrogenaudio.org for lots of detail and links to testing and comparisons. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 15 Feb 2010 2:36 pm
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| Very helpful. Many thanks. |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 15 Feb 2010 3:36 pm
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Andy:
You might find this little application useful:
http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/fileabx/
fileABX is a freeware Windows command-line utility that helps performing file-based ABX tests. This program generates ABX-style, "blinded" randomized copies of a pair of files specified. The person taking the test has to identify them without knowing which one he is playing each time. A statistical analysis of the results is provided so that it is possible to know if the person really perceived a difference between the files, or his results can be attributable to chance. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 15 Feb 2010 4:02 pm
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Thanks, Mitch but ...
A) I'm on a Mac
B) That's a level of due diligence WAY beyond my interest level
Appreciate all the good info though! |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2010 5:14 pm
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FLAC is a true lossless codec. It's a little larger then most people will want to go for portable use, however with how cheap storage is at this point, I think it's a crime against nature for the average population to have given up "good" recordings.
It's like we came down the technological superhighway and took a left onto a dirt road.
I will agree that a high bitrate mp3 is acceptable for portable use, but you CAN tell the difference. Why are we killing the efforts of the best recording guys out there? Take a track. Code it to mp3. Get the original out on CD (or vinyl) listen to the mp3 first on a decent stereo. Then put on the original and tell me if you can't hear the difference in the low end immediately. My 60 year old Dad and I did this with Hotel California. It was shocking how much you lost with the MP3.
So, for portable use, go 320kb Mp3, you will thank me later. But please, keep a copy of the music somewhere pure. Crappy music doesn't need it, some pop sounds good on whatever you play it on, but some albums demand a high quality sound to be appreciated, as cheesy as that sounds. To be a blatant hipster stereotype, Grizzly Bear's "Veckatimist" kinda sucks in Mp3, stick in the CD and your brain melts.
There are a few other "lossless" formats. In lossy you might as well stick to Mp3. It's good with LAME encoding as mentioned.
Random Grizzly video thrown in for fun. Kick it up to HD! Still not as good as the cd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ4jZeGUFzI&feature=related |
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