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Topic: Misleading info settin the historcal "Facts" of to |
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 3 Feb 2010 12:46 pm |
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Misleading information could end up creating a new set of facts if we don't challenge it. As an example, according to this article Fender were making lap steels pre 1935 ??
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Contests/2009/Gibson-Electric-Steel-Guitars/
Who is A.R. Duchossoir ?
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Martin and Fender already had their own line of steel guitars by the time Gibson introduced the EHG in 1935, but, thanks to their beautiful design and technological advances, Gibson steel guitars quickly dominated the field .
From there Gison’s lap and pedal steels found favor with the country & western bands that were dominating the airwaves of late 50s and early 60s America. And by the time they went out of production in 1967 there was scarcely a country band without a Gibson electric steel guitar. |
So much care in the detail (I don't think) note the typo 'Gison' and the scarcely a country band would imply a large percentage, a VERY LARGE exaggeration methinks.
So can anyone substantiate the pre 1935 Fender lap steel ?. (I am of course not holding my breath whilst awaiting an answer)
_________________
Steelies do it without fretting
CLICK THIS to view my tone bars and buy——> |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 3 Feb 2010 12:55 pm
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DELETED
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 27 Feb 2011 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 3 Feb 2010 3:51 pm A.R. Duchossoir
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Last edited by Jason Hull on 4 May 2012 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 3 Feb 2010 3:52 pm
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I don't think anyone is suggesting Mr. Duchossoir had anything to do with that inaccurate information, Jerry.
A.R. Duchossoir is the author of several books on vintage guitars, most notably his recent book on Gibson electric steel guitars.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2010 4:02 pm
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I don't think that is a statement by A.R. Duchossoir, the author of the book. He is certainly aware of steel guitar history and has written the definative book on Gibson steels IMO.
As for corporate fools making ridiculous statements, remember the full page Fender ads some years back declaring the Tele having been introduced in 1948?
Or the "reissue" of models they never made to begin with (like the blackface Vibrolux Reverb with white barrel knobs)?
I guess it's up to us to keep it straight.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 3 Feb 2010 7:22 pm
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I suppose there are always people in high places in advertising who don't really know anything, or get the wrong info.
Leo is likely chuckling in his grave  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 4 Feb 2010 12:48 am
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
Even Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide now lists a "Deluxe 8/Stringmaster Single Steel". |
Well Doug, maybe that's the one that's referred to above as the pre 1935 Fender !!  |
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Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
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Posted 4 Feb 2010 9:09 am
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If they were so good and so prevalent and the implication successful why did they stop production in '67? Why not keep going? I guess maybe they weren't quite as good and prevalent as the announcement might make them out to be. Do you think?
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Steve |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 4 Feb 2010 10:06 am
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| why did they stop production in '67? |
Because demand for non-pedal steels dropped way off in the late 1960s. Both Gibson and Rickenbacker stopped making steel guitars. Supro/Oahu/Valco went out of business in 1968. Music had changed, and the rock era pretty much killed the steel guitar. Lap steel and Hawaiian music had been very popular in the 1940s. Oahu sold lap steels door-to-door and they sold a lot of them. By the late 60s that era was over.
Also, the pedal steel guitar became the preferred ax for steel guitarists in the 60s and 70s. Fender continued making non-pedal steels until about 1980.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2010 11:00 am
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| Steve Branscom wrote: |
| If they were so good and so prevalent and the implication successful why did they stop production in '67? Why not keep going? |
That was exactly what I thought when I read it. Course you could take the argument country died off a bit as rock took over. Not sure why people didn't play rock on them. I pulled off a mean "War Pigs" last night on my Rick. Open D tuning is made for it.  |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2010 2:19 pm
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| I kinda think Vintage Guitar used the "Deluxe 8/Stringmaster Single Steel" because so many people have used that incorrect name, that there's genuine confusion over just what that guitar is called. By using the "Deluxe 8" indicates to me that they know eggs ackley what it is. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 4 Feb 2010 8:45 pm
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| Deluxe 8/Stringmaster Single Steel |
The misnomer has evolved because there were Two versions of the Deluxe 8. The Early 50s version and the later version. The early Deluxe 8 had a trapezoid pickup, lollipop tuners, etc. The Mid-50s (and later) Deluxe 8 had "Stringmaster features" (2 under-string pickups, blend control knob, etc). Same Model Name - Deluxe 8 - different style of guitar. The later one is often listed, incorrectly, as a Stringmaster.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 5 Feb 2010 2:09 am
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If only those using the description were to add the word "Style" it would then be totally correct i.e. "Deluxe 8/Stringmaster Style single 8"
This is only one of the myriad of inaccuracies that are slowly creeping into common usage, only to be accepted as "Fact" probably sooner rather than later..
BTW TOTALLY on a different tack, how about "Inaccuracies" NOT following the rule:- 'I' before 'E' except after 'C' ? now there's an anomaly.. |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 5 Feb 2010 7:16 am
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Yeah, I have always hated my last name is in violation of the rules.... (Steindler)
Word meaning changes so much in such a short period of time, it is hard to keep up. In regards to our last conversation about patent applied for humbucking pickups, I think that is a case where Gibson made a technical definition ("we have released a series of pickups which we are applying for patent on"), and the rest of the world used that as a description for a single pickup based on the sticker, when in true it originally referred to a period of pickups. What is the correct definition I have no clue. That seems to be a matter of opinion. (I'm going to rumbleseat music today, they write for Vintage Guitar magazine, maybe I will ask them for a millionth opinion)
Moxie is an interesting one to go way off subject. It was originally a soft drink with a really good advertising campaign. Then you can mention the same word often has a completely different meaning if you cross the ocean, what you English would call a cigarette would get you in trouble over here.
Evolution of words is tricky. They go back and forth, there is no set meaning.
I wonder what Bible translation forums are like. I bet there are some nasty arguments.
Ok, sorry, slightly out there but I felt it cut to the heart of the matter. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Feb 2010 7:21 am
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| "Moxie is a carbonated beverage which was among the first mass-produced soft drinks in the United States, and is regionally popular to this day." |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 5 Feb 2010 9:38 am
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| Nicholai Steindler wrote: |
I wonder what Bible translation forums are like. I bet there are some nasty arguments.
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I could only imagine. I wonder what a good cuss-out in Aramaic sounds like?
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 5 Feb 2010 4:50 pm
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| Nicholai Steindler wrote: |
what you English would call a cigarette would get you in trouble over here.
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YES, after the smoking ban was implemented on trans-Atlantic flights I flew to Gnash-vile via Kennedy, on alighting at Kennedy I exclaimed that I was "busting for a pull on a fag" 
That means a quick inhalation of a cigarette colloquially..
Yes Nicholai the PAF debate will no doubt rage on..
What we know for certain is that the first Gibson electric Hawaiian Guitar was 1935 EH-150 Metal body and the pickup was LATER to become known as the "Charlie Christian".
Later in the early 50's Gibson AGAIN used a Hawaiian guitar as a "Test-bed" this time for their NEW humbucking technology, and that was at the time "Patent applied For".
Never having seen different, I assume that the STICKER came later on the regular guitar models.
It certainly isn't on the pickup of the 6 string Electraharp or the 8 string Multiharp that I owned even though those pickups ARE indeed the original humbuckers. |
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