Vintage vs. New, 6 vs. 8 - advice for a soon to be player

Chris Lackner · Post by **Chris Lackner** » 28 Jan 2010 6:33 pm

I finally decided to pull the trigger but not sure what to pull it on.

I'd like a vintage Valco or an under $300 new instrument.

People keep mentioning that the string thru pickups are great for blues or dirty tones, but does that mean that they are ill suited for Hawaiian playing?

If not vintage, I'd like an Allen Melbert, Dynalap, or maybe a Rondo (to keep cost low).

The Dynalap looks great, but the 8 strings worry me. I'm assuming I'd be happier with 6 (I like things simple). Is the string spacing on a Dynalap tighter than a 6 string Valco?

I'm aware of the general dilemma with new vs vintage. The quirks of my vintage ukulele drove me to buy a new one... but the new one didn't have that certain something that made me want to pick it up as much.

I'm a total novice looking for some advice.
Pickups, string count, old vs new, brand...

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 28 Jan 2010 8:44 pm

Go for the DynaLap, you won't be sorry, and it'll be a fave til you go to the great gig in the sky.
The string spacing isn't tight at all, but just right. In fact, since there are no string grooves at either end you can place them as you wish, then groove or not.
Get the 8, of course you can leave off two strings til you get adventurous or just go for it!

John Burton · Post by **John Burton** » 29 Jan 2010 6:32 am

I'll second the Dynalap.
Here's mine:

Hardest part of building it was the sanding. Just take your time with the finish, there are many options how to do it.
The Rondo ain't a bad steel, though, after a change of pickups and wiring. But, for full rich, "Round", sound the Dynalap does it.
If you are still worried about eight strings, then may I suggest a Maple Morrell Pro six string? They have a good tone and can be had for under 300 bucks. I like mine.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 29 Jan 2010 6:45 am

Here's my review of the Rondo:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Rondo/Rondo.html

And a page full of 6 string lap tab:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/LapTab.html

I'd say go with 8 strings and if you want to use the C6 tuning, tune it like my web site but add a C# as the bottom string. Going through my tabs will show the value of having the low C and C# both available.

The Rondo is a great value but it's also a very low end instrument. The Dynalap blows the Rondo away in terms of looks, pickup, and build quality.

I'd go with the 8 string DynaLap if I was starting all over again.

Greg

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 29 Jan 2010 7:14 am

Whatever you do be sure and click on the links that Greg Cutshaw gives, and take a look at his review and especially listen to what can be done on a six string lap steel guitar.

I have not heard any better than what Greg does with it, and all that on a $99 guitar.

Beautiful playing Greg

People like Greg and Willie Nelson are living proof that great music is not all in the instrument, but in the person playing it.

I agree with what is said here about going to an 8 string though. You can always take 2 strings off if you want to try the 6 string first.

Paul DiMaggio · Post by **Paul DiMaggio** » 29 Jan 2010 8:17 am

I have an Allen Melbert 8 string and a 6 string Morrell.The Allen Melbert is the better guitar in general.The pickup,volume and tone knob configuration are similar.I like the pickups on both although I do lean towards the Jerry Wallace on the A.M.
Workmanship is where the two go in different directions.The Morrell is literally slapped together.The fretboard was painted on almost a 1/2" back from where it should have been.I had to build a new nut and mount it in the right spot[with the help of John Burton].Two of the tuners[no name brand] are mounted crooked.The paint is poorly done too.Just a lack of quality control.
The A.M.is well made and the tuners are better quality.
The fret board is acrylic,properly mounted.The finish [clear coat on natural ash]is well done and there is no over spray on the parts painted black.
I paid around the $200 USD mark for each one.The A.M. was advertised as blemished [a very small nick in the wood].The Morrell was not advertised as such.
Bob Allen was excellent to deal with.

Kenneth Caine · Post by **Kenneth Caine** » 29 Jan 2010 9:32 am

I have been very pleased with my Dynalap since I finished it about a year ago. I play mostly on 6 strings on it although it's has all 8 wired up. It's a instrument that you will use for many years so go for the 8 strings now.

My instructor loves it and said it's one of the best lap steels he has ever heard. And for a great price.

Chris Lackner · Post by **Chris Lackner** » 29 Jan 2010 5:02 pm

Many thanks to everyone for their replies.
The unanimous praise is certainly pushing me towards the Dynalap.

I'm surprised I haven't heard from any Valco or Magnatone fans.

Danny- I also happen to love Willie's guitar playing.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 29 Jan 2010 5:32 pm

Well, I like the Magnatones a lot, not the real cheap student models, but models like the G70 and G65. These can generally be had in the $300-500 range. I highly recommend them, as long as you're able to check them out in advance and make sure they have no issues.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 29 Jan 2010 5:36 pm

I believe that you can get a lot more for your money with an old Valco/Supro, as prices are pretty reasonable. You've got to decide if you can be happy with the patina of an older instrument, and the possibility that you might, for example, need to fit new buttons to the tuners.

The string-through pickups work just fine for Hawaiian styles.

Ryan Barwin · Post by **Ryan Barwin** » 29 Jan 2010 8:14 pm

An 8-string is a lot more versatile, as far as the tunings you can use. And if it's too many strings at first, just put 6 strings on it.
There's no reason not to get a vintage steel guitar, if you can find one in good shape. Most new non-pedal steels are based on the vintage designs anyway.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 29 Jan 2010 8:33 pm

The obvious downside to cheaper vintage, especially if you buy without the chance to hold/play it are the various quirks that are all to common that will need attention/repair before you can play.

Another cool aspect of the DynaLap is that you can put the kit together and get an education on the workings and set up of a steel that can elude even an old pro.
Plus the kit is cheaper. I didn't even bother with putting a finish on mine. It sounded so good I just got to playing.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 29 Jan 2010 9:26 pm

You may want something simple and not too pricey if you are just starting. If you decide it's not for you, you wont have much invested.

Chris Lackner · Post by **Chris Lackner** » 1 Feb 2010 7:20 am

I found this Supro with legs on Craigslist. It would be about the same price as a Dynalap with stings and finishing supplies.

Based on everyone's recommendations, I feel like I should pass on the Supro and go with the legless Dynalap due to the versatility of stringing it up with either 6 or 8 strings.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 1 Feb 2010 7:38 am

Those Supro Airlines are neat guitars, I'd snag it and jump right in. If down the road you don't bond with it, or want to move to something different, those are always good sellers.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 1 Feb 2010 8:24 am

I went through a phase of buying vintage instruments and loved them all for their 'mojo', and many of them for their tone.

However, when choosing a solid reliable 'workhorse' I can depend on I'd much rather get a new one. Plus, I like knowing I'm supporting dedicated luthiers who are not getting rich by building great instruments that can compare with just about any vintage lap steel out there.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 1 Feb 2010 8:41 am

While Steiner is a pro and I'm an amateur, I've played enough steels to find that his advice rings true. I'm always on the lookout for vintage steels and I've played a ton of them over the last few years. A lot of those old instruments, like the supros that I have tried and passed up, were built with questionable quality. I own three vintage Japanese models and love them for their unique/quirky qualities. However, when it comes to perform, I always go back to the instruments that I bought new. For me, it's the Fouke Industrial steels. They are solid all-around and have no drawbacks.

While the vintage models can have some great tones, there always seems to be some flaw that makes them less practical. Microphonic pickups, crappy tuners, dead spots, etc.

What I find strange is that this doesn't just apply to budget vintage steels. I've played several old Fenders, a Ric, and several Gibsons that were nothing to write home about.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 1 Feb 2010 10:49 am

I don't think the origional question was about a new pro-quality instrument vs a vintage one. If you shop carefully you can get more on a beginner's budget buying used, and later you should be able to sell for what you have in it. If Dynalaps are better than old Valcos, then look for a used Dynalap.

My personal inclination in this scenario would be to save up a bit and look at an Asher EH Jr. However, if you feel better about buying new then go for it.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 1 Feb 2010 11:27 am

Dyna's are better sounding/playing than most anything on the market, especially for the price, you just can't go wrong.
Maybe hard to believe by their sometimes modest looks and layout, but I was blown away. I also like the ability to easily bar at the nut or slide off it, get a completely parallel string set up from nut to bridge, or whatever placement at each end.

Rusty Smith · Post by **Rusty Smith** » 1 Feb 2010 11:45 am

Paul DiMaggio wrote:I have an Allen Melbert 8 string and a 6 string Morrell.The Allen Melbert is the better guitar in general.The pickup,volume and tone knob configuration are similar.I like the pickups on both although I do lean towards the Jerry Wallace on the A.M.

-------

I have 6 string Rogue for vacationing, a 6 string Fender (50's) for tone ,and an 8 string Allen Melbert for a do almost everything when I don't need my triple neck Fender console. The Melbert sounds great, is well made in the US and priced below many poorly made imports. I think they are a great bargin.

Chris Battis · Post by **Chris Battis** » 1 Feb 2010 4:29 pm

James Mayer wrote: However, when it comes to perform, I always go back to the instruments that I bought new. For me, it's the Fouke Industrial steels. They are solid all-around and have no drawbacks.

I don't know what madness came over me just now, but I read this recommendation and made a "best offer" that was accepted on a new Fouke on ebay. I really hope my wife is cool with this when she gets home in an hour!

Chris

Stephen Abruzzo · Post by **Stephen Abruzzo** » 1 Feb 2010 5:11 pm

Unless you really know your way around taking care of a guitar (of any type), it's probably best to buy NEW, as you have warranty/guarantees that you don't necessarily get with a used item. Not to mention that you might have to do/have work done soon after buying the guitar.

Of course, the exception to the above is if the used git is being sold by someone who takes good care of their gits. Then, by all means, buy the used git.

Me, myself, I buy NEW. I want it just the way I want it. I don't want something I have to fix or mod. lol

+1 on the Foulke lap steels. Great steels at a great price. AMERICAN made. Chris is a great guy to deal with too. Answers E-mails promptly. I have one in Dobro G and it was my first lap steel. I have the Dan Walsh PRO frying pan model (22.5" scale) with a PAF bucker and coil split switch.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 1 Feb 2010 5:36 pm

Yeah, Chris is great. I've nagged the hell out of him and he's been nothing but patient. Probably due to the fact that I bought three of his steels. Seriously, though, great customer service.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 1 Feb 2010 5:42 pm

As far as the tone of an instrument is concerned, it's subjective, and a matter of taste.
Many people buy a particular guitar because some famous person played that brand/model.
Thing is, it just doesn't sound that good when "we" play it !!

Rickey Mitchell · Post by **Rickey Mitchell** » 2 Feb 2010 5:15 pm

Go new, I strongly reccomend it. For what you'd pay for a vintage model unless you get luckey you get one made just for you with a few different sounds.

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Vintage vs. New, 6 vs. 8 - advice for a soon to be player

Vintage vs. New, 6 vs. 8 - advice for a soon to be player

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