| Author |
Topic: When Do You Add Compression In Your Mixes? |
Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 11 Dec 2009 3:39 pm |
|
When do you add compression in your mixes?
Do you add them to each individual track as you record, or do you wait to the final mix after bouncing all tracks before adding compression? |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 11 Dec 2009 4:32 pm
|
|
| I've done it both ways. I've added some to the vocal in certain circumstances and then I've also used Boost 11 (in Sonar) on the final mix. |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 11 Dec 2009 5:05 pm
|
|
I just finished a mix and decided to check--there were 52 tracks up and I think about 40+ compressors running on the tracks, plus the master buss out of the desk was going to a SSL stereo compressor and then into a tube Avalon 747 stereo compressor and NightPro EQ3D equalizer before hitting an Apogee A/D converter into a MasterLink. The compressors range from very transparent and used lightly to some very aggressive ones...compression is an art form....
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 12 Dec 2009 3:50 am
|
|
| In the old days the motto about compression was "if you can hear it....it is too much". |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 12 Dec 2009 4:38 am
|
|
interesting question....
The answer is "when you need it " and that's not meant to be funny or sarcastic.
Compression is a very easy tool to use incorrectly and I do not have a magic wand. I ask myself the same question with each small project I work on. I'm glad I don't have to do this everyday like John !
As a novice , try this experiment.
Run a raw a track thru a compressor exaggerated , lots of compression. save it as something other than the original.
Run the same raw track thru the compressor with a modest setting, save it again as yet another file..
Now run the raw track thru the compressor with a very minimal setting, yes save it as another file.
Now, sit back and listen to each one under the exact same audio parameters, the differences should jump out at you and only you can determine which one you like best. You have Coarse, Medium and Fine, I suspect one of them will be close to what you prefer. Then modify from there.
Write down the results and make note of the settings you like. This will be a starting place for the next project.
I hate compressors but love what they do !
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 16 Dec 2009 6:33 am
|
|
Using compression on individual tracks means that your compressing the dynamics of only that track. Compressing the mix means that your compressing the combination of all of the tracks. For that reason I use mild compression on the way in and then again on the final mix which, if done judiciously, makes compression less obvious. That pumping compression sound that I hear on many pro recordings drives me crazy.
_________________
https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
|
|
|
Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 19 Dec 2009 9:43 am
|
|
Thanks everyone 
Mark, it's interesting that you and Jack mention that you both use compression twice. It made more sense to me to add compression to individual tracks only at the end (during the final mix).
I've always wondered why some pre-amps like the Avalon 737 have a compressor/equalizer built in, and why compression would be added at that point of the chain.
Is it common for many studio's to use compression twice in their mixes? Why compress twice?
Thanks again for help. I'll have to start experimenting with this.
Aloha  |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 19 Dec 2009 10:21 am
|
|
Most things with a large dynamic range get compressed a bit (or a lot) on the way in, hence the popularity of gear like the 737 (not one of my faves). During tracking, I am usually compressing the kick, snare, toms and room mics on the drums, bass, electric guitars and vocal.
Like I said earlier, compression is used a lot on individual tracks during the mix, and the overall mix is usually compressed, too. Don't forget the mastering engineer is going to compress it some more, and then radio is going to smash limit/compress it on the way to the airwaves....
The art of compression is an art--you really have to understand how and why they work, and what kind works best on what source. You can really do a lot of damage if you are not careful. Of course, certain types of music call for very aggressive use of it, while a acoustic jazz or bluegrass band would call for a more judicious amount. There are also compressors that can do an amazing amount of compression without sounding like it.
The best thing is just to start experimenting with what you have and hear what it is doing, and go from there....
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
|
|
|
Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
|
Posted 19 Dec 2009 12:06 pm
|
|
John, when you mention you track with comps on drums, guitars, etc.. do you mean you actually 'print' the compressed signal or that you just monitor that way?
_________________
Lost Pines Studio
"I'm nuts about bolts" |
|
|
|
Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
|
Posted 19 Dec 2009 1:16 pm
|
|
I'm with John on this one. Nearly every compressor has a distinct sonic signature (even if it's just transparent, or relatively so) and often affects whatever you track through it as much or more than EQ does. Tracking with compression on bass, guitars, drums, can give them a sound and way of sitting in the mix that will affect your other sonic choices down the line. I like to make many of those choices as the sessions move along. On vocals, I will usually compress as little as possible to get a solid take, to leave room for more careful compression decisions at the mixing stage, and almost always at least some light compression across the 2 buss at mixdown, leaving headroom and sonic space for further compression if it's a project that's going to mastering.
There are instances where you want compression to be "invisible" and others when you want to use it as a very noticeable effect, as with pumping room mics on a rock drum track, or the acoustic guitars on "Suite Judy Blue Eyes", which were run through 2 comps in series to get that sound, which arguably really helps make that track. Art indeed! |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 19 Dec 2009 9:41 pm
|
|
Like Mark said, I print with comps and eq all the time. Especially if you are staying in the box, you need to get that analog color on the way in. I pretty much know what I want going into the project and am not afraid to go for it. Sometimes I will print a pure DI signal from the bass and electric guitars in case I want to reamp them later, but seldom use them. I am fortunate to have a rackful of great compressors to get the tones I am looking for, and have lots of choices in the plugin world, too. It just takes a lot of time to get to know them and know what is best for the sound you are looking for....
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
|
|
|
Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
|
Posted 20 Dec 2009 10:06 am
|
|
| John Macy wrote: |
| a rackful of great compressors to get the tones I am looking for, and have lots of choices in the plugin world, too. |
John, do you ever use one audio signal as control for another signal? For example, squeeze the steel when the vocal comes in? With plug-ins, I reckon you can look ahead and squeeze gently just before the vocal enters. |
|
|
|
Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
|
Posted 20 Dec 2009 10:53 am
|
|
| Hey, Doug, sidechaining is a great tool in the compression bag. I use it frequently for ducking as you mention, I've never done it with steel, often just automating anything I didn't get while tracking. But for instance, ducking an overly-enthusiastic bass player off the kick can be a track saver. Another thing I often do is duck snyth or organ pads using the background vocals. It's a great tool. |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 20 Dec 2009 11:28 am
|
|
Don't you mean squeeze the vocal when the steel comes in....?
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
|
|
|
Bob Martin
From:
Madison Tn
|
Posted 28 Dec 2009 1:46 pm
|
|
| John Macy wrote: |
| Don't you mean squeeze the vocal when the steel comes in....? |
That has to be what he meant there's nothing worse than a singer getting in the way of a nice steel guitar fill
_________________
***Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow*** |
|
|
|
Terry Edwards
From:
Florida... livin' on spongecake...
|
Posted 15 Jan 2010 3:32 pm
|
|
Compression should be subtle. If you can hear it you may be over-doing it. When you are tracking -be conservative. you can always add more later but you can't uncompress once recorded.
experiment... over-do it to hear the "pulsing" or "breathing" of the music so you know what to listen for. |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 15 Jan 2010 7:42 pm
|
|
"Compression should be subtle"
Or not...
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
|
|
|
John Roche
From:
England
|
|
|
|
Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 17 Jan 2010 2:08 pm
|
|
| Thanks John |
|
|
|
John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
|
Posted 21 Jan 2010 10:49 am
|
|
I also do a lot of parallel compression, where you have the same source on two tracks, and can compress the heck out of one, and then blend the non-compressed track in to retain some dynamics and still have a lot of punch. Picking the right compressor is very important, much like picking the right mic, pre or eq for the job. We have over 60 channels of outboard analog compressors to choose from here, along with countless plugins. Some are almost invisible and some offer a serious George Foreman punch. Some get used daily and others are kinda one trick ponyies that don't get that much use, but when they do, they are amazing...
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
|
|
|
Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
|
Posted 22 Jan 2010 7:20 am
|
|
John
I appreciate your insight on this subject. It's been a good read and informative.
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
|
|
|
Jerry Erickson
From:
Atlanta,IL 61723
|
|
|
|
Jim Patton
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2010 6:25 am
|
|
| Another thing with compression is that a little compression twice is always better than too much at once (unless you're going for an effect). It'll get your vocal to sit in one spot without artifacts. I'll compress a vocal a bit on the way in, and once more while mixing. Quick attack, quick release, lower ratios. Drums are another story. I like quick compressors on overheads (ssl g-series)...just tickle the meter. Quick & colorful compressors are great for kick/snare too. I don't usually feel the need to compress tom mics. I'm guilty of editing the silence out of the tom tracks to focus the drum sound and get the toms to punch through when they are hit. A gate would do the same thing. |
|
|
|
Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2010 11:40 pm
|
|
When adjusting the attack, threshold, ratio, and release; which should be adjusted first? second?
third? and last?
There is a lot of information about what each one does, but I couldn't find any material mentioning what order or sequence one should use. I'm well aware that you may have to go back and make fine adjustments. |
|
|
|
Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
|
Posted 28 Jan 2010 11:49 am
|
|
Derrick,
I choose the ratio 1st, then typically set the attack, threshold and release.
Like many effects, where you place them in the signal chain greatly affects how they respond. |
|
|
|
