Sho Bud "Rustoration"

Neil Harms · Post by **Neil Harms** » 5 Jan 2010 5:27 pm

My latest project. I'm guessing 74? This Pro I has a the single up/single down changer but has nylon tuning nuts. Has some brass barrels under it. The finish is rough! I'm going to leave it alone for now and enjoy the natural relic vibe. Took it all apart and found very little wear and tear in the changer. Got all the gunk out and it's now put back together. I'm converting this to play standing up so am working on moving the pedals over and extending pedal rods. Just need a little more time. Had two bonus knee levers that were a mish-mash of Pro and Super-Pro parts. These are getting transplanted to a Fender 8 string. I'm leaving the two original knees as I may want to play it sitting down from time to time. Keeping the copedent super simple. Standard A and B pedal with pedal three lowering the E's. RKR will lower 2 and 9 and RKL will raise the E's. Enjoy the before pics. After soon. I hope...

Does anyone know what the thread size is on the pull rods?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 Jan 2010 12:09 pm

I'm wonderin' if it might not just be older than you think. I believe that barrels behind two-hole pullers was 1973. The access hole in the endplate looks like it's an older style to me. And kinda a mixture of parts underneath too. I'll bet it sounds great!

Brian LeBlanc · Post by **Brian LeBlanc** » 6 Jan 2010 12:14 pm

I'd like to see result

Might covert one of my Pro 1's to Stand up

...but need a Knee Lever solution

admin · Post by **b0b** » 6 Jan 2010 12:56 pm

I bought one new in the spring of '74, a 6139 model 3+1 with a cabinet exactly like the one pictured. It had rack-and-barrel underneath, but it also had double raise/single lower changer fingers. So now I'm really confused.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 6 Jan 2010 2:24 pm

b0b wrote:I bought one new in the spring of '74, a 6139 model 3+1 with a cabinet exactly like the one pictured. It had rack-and-barrel underneath, but it also had double raise/single lower changer fingers. So now I'm really confused.

Bob, I also had the 6139. I bought mine in the spring of '72. It had only single holes in raise/lower, and rack&barrel.
So going by that, it must mean that yours is a result of one thing: They had started to experiment with a different system by 1974.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 Jan 2010 2:50 pm

My November 1974, 6139 no longer had barrels, but nylon tuners. Double raise, single lower. I think this guitar is a bit older, with some updated parts. Appears to be single raise/single lower changer.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 6 Jan 2010 3:07 pm

When you get it converted to belly-button height, I'd sure like to see it. I'm sure that I'll want one, too.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 6 Jan 2010 4:25 pm

John Billings wrote:My November 1974, 6139 no longer had barrels, but nylon tuners. Double raise, single lower. I think this guitar is a bit older, with some updated parts. Appears to be single raise/single lower changer.

I know that mine, built in early 1974, was towards the end of the rack construction. What baffles me about this one is the single raise/lower changer. It's like they put an older changer in a new guitar.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 6 Jan 2010 4:38 pm

I had a D-10 with the same inlay, pedals, teardrop keyheads, and it was a 1970. It had the barrells but not the racks so there was a mixture of these back then. Duane Marrs told me there were some with the racks and some without and best I remember he said they were probably changing it over to whatever was the newer changer system at that time. It's really cool how you tune them as you can tune one string that has two different raises on the same allen screw at the end long as you're pushing the pedal or knee lever for that string. I changed it over to a double raise/single lower changer with parts from Ed Naylor and it had the nylon tuners on it. Real easy to do too! Those are great guitars but the D-10's are heavier than a truck to tote around. I loved the guitar but got rid of it for that reason. It was such a stout piece of wood that it didn't have any cabinet drop at all.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 6 Jan 2010 4:39 pm

My round-front LDG, dated 3/27/74 by Gene Haugh, has barrels behind two-hole pullers and single/single changer. It's been my understanding that was the standard '73-early '74 configuration. What seems strange about the one you had, b0b, is that it had an older undercarriage (racks) and a newer changer than that.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 6 Jan 2010 5:58 pm

I say the pull rod thread size is 5/40.SAE

Neil Harms · Post by **Neil Harms** » 6 Jan 2010 7:13 pm

Thanks for all the comments. It is an interesting animal. I've got the guitar itself back together as of today with the pedal crossrods moved over. I skipped where the fourth pedal would be and installed the three I have in positions 5,6 and 7. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have time to make my pull rod extensions and get the pedals relocated in the pedal rack. That should be fun... Got it all rodded up today. I'm looking for a knee lever solution too as that E to F raise is going to be tough to do without. Maybe a hip lever.... I found some collars at Westlakes that have a set screw in them. I plan to ream them out to 5/8 to hold the legs in place. Naturally they only had 9/16 or 3/4.... Got the idea from looking closely at Jr. Brown's. Does anyone know if he had custom endplates made that change the angle on the front legs? The reach to the pedals is going to be doable but it would be nice if they were back towards me just a bit more.

Also, it's interesting on this steel that the two-hole pullers are all tapped for the set screw to grab the rod. The barrels are used only for setting up multiple raises or lowers on the same rod.

The pick up sounds really good but the little switch is either dirty or shot. It only works when I find the "sweet" spot. Sigh. More fixing...

Back with more later and pics when she's done.

Neil Harms · Post by **Neil Harms** » 6 Jan 2010 7:14 pm

I did have a 5/40 die and it worked great! Thanks.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 6 Jan 2010 8:54 pm

Neil Harms wrote:Also, it's interesting on this steel that the two-hole pullers are all tapped for the set screw to grab the rod. The barrels are used only for setting up multiple raises or lowers on the same rod.

That's the system on Sho-Buds from approximately mid-'74 to, I believe,'77. I think the "Super Pro" mechanics began around '78. The all-barrels two-hole puller system was short-lived.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 Jan 2010 4:20 am

"The reach to the pedals is going to be doable but "
This problem can be solved by footwear. I suggest these spiffy jobs;

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 Jan 2010 11:37 am

b0b wrote;
"It's like they put an older changer in a new guitar."

And,,, an older endplate, with the smaller cutout for the sr/sl changer. I tried to zoom in to see if there were any holes in the cabinet that indicated any other parts, but it got too fuzzy to tell. So,,, I'm still thinkin' early '73, but early enough that they used up an endplate and changer that was still in stock from the previous model. ???

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 7 Jan 2010 12:11 pm

I trade a CLR for a pro 1 that was a basket case, it was hauled around by a person that lived in his car. It was wore clear thru the finish and turned black on the edges. It had single raise single lower pullers. You could not get a C pedal on it. I had Leon Roberts refinish and rebuild the underneith, best guitar I ever had. Russ Hicks first heard it on stage, when I went back to see Russ, he said a keeper for sure and sounds great, Doc Bob Strum confirmed .You have one of the best if updated.

ernie

admin · Post by **b0b** » 7 Jan 2010 1:11 pm

I'm starting to doubt my memory. Maybe mine wasn't double raise. I sold it to Jack Francis. Maybe he can remember.

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 7 Jan 2010 1:53 pm

Same memory problems as you b0b..Don't believe it had a double-raise changer though.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 7 Jan 2010 5:28 pm

This is an interesting gtr. Some of the pullers have barrels, and some are fixed.
The first pedal has one of each. And it's really rare - if not weird - to see barrels with nylon tuners at the changer.
It doesn't have vol & tone pots on the back shelf, and the coil tap is on the endplate...and it's got a Pro I decal. And the p/u doesn't have mounting bolts thru it. I'd say it's around '74?
Wonder if it came from the factory like that... I sorta doubt it.
btw... I don't see any SuperPro parts there. And what happened to the lowering dealie on the 3rd string at the changer? Not that you'd normally lower the 3rd string.
Anyway... it's a cool old Bud.

Neil Harms · Post by **Neil Harms** » 7 Jan 2010 6:35 pm

How about some more pics? It didn't have any extra holes except where the newer knee levers were installed. The space between the left knees was HUGE. Those two knees had some super-pro (or maybe super-proish?)stuff. The knee lever brackets look hand-made so maybe they are a copy of a pro or something else? It's coming along nicely. I'd be done today but can't find the right size stainless rod to make extensions for the pedal rods. Guess I'll have to order them. Sigh.

On a side note, I didn't think baskets would work with a double raise/single lower. Wouldn't it have to be single/single for everything to line up and work? I'm betting Bob's was a single/single.

Neil Harms · Post by **Neil Harms** » 7 Jan 2010 6:38 pm

Anyone got a really clear pic of a half-stop setup for the second string lower? I've got parts left over and thought I'd put it on here to keep from losing them. Just can't figure out how to do it without a hint or three. Also might add it to my 76 LDG which is a double up/double down model. Thanks in advance!

admin · Post by **b0b** » 7 Jan 2010 7:06 pm

Neil Harms wrote:On a side note, I didn't think baskets would work with a double raise/single lower. Wouldn't it have to be single/single for everything to line up and work? I'm betting Bob's was a single/single.

I thought it had 3 baskets on each rack. Maybe I'm imagining it. It was my first real pedal steel, and it was all very exotic to me at the time.

Neil Harms · Post by **Neil Harms** » 7 Jan 2010 8:06 pm

I know what you mean. I was completly baffled by that first Maverick. Still baffled but in a good way now. Really, really baffled by push-pulls....

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 7 Jan 2010 11:31 pm

Brint Hannay wrote:
Neil Harms wrote:Also, it's interesting on this steel that the two-hole pullers are all tapped for the set screw to grab the rod. The barrels are used only for setting up multiple raises or lowers on the same rod.
That's the system on Sho-Buds from approximately mid-'74 to, I believe,'77.

This statement was wrong!

I should think more before posting! The barrels for multiple changes were only necessary as long as the changer was single/single.

Neil's guitar would seem to be from the very beginning of nylon tuner/rod-fixed-at-the-bell-crank construction, when indeed they were probably working with remaining stock of sr/sl changers and associated end plates. Probably mid-'74, I'd guess. Maybe Gene Haugh could nail it down from the serial number:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... &start=225