What-No comments on Bobbe's Tips

[Richard Damron]

"A rose by any other name"

History - once again - repeats itself.

Ed Packard - please hurry.

[ed packard]

Hey RD...we will get back to those unfinished tone experiments after a bit...then they will cover bar/string noise, individual string harmonic content vs. time (sustain?) and more.

Some THINK that they know...some know they THINK they know...watch out for the ones that KNOW that they KNOW!

I just generate experiments, collect and publish data, and build PSGs to confirm or deny MYTHS.

I draw a difference between instruments with resonant cavities that project sound, and solid bodies that mostly just hold strings above the pickup...like them both but they are different. Like both Strombergs and Les Paul's.

Meanwhile...back to my electronic changer PSG.

[Richard Damron]

Ed Packard -

I guess that you know, by now, that Georg and I are your two biggest and avid supporters.

You also know that we are patient. Do what you will and when you will.

[Kevin Hatton]

Back to the subject at hand. I read the news letter. Bobbe Seymour as usual is exactly correct. If there is one thing that Bobbe knows hands down (he knows many. PHD), its steel guitar construction. Many years ago he (and others) explained to me why most modern guitars will never get the classic 60's tone of pedal steel. You see there was a movement in the 80's and 90's to shorten and lighten steel guitars. Also, cheaper materials for profit. These factors amongst some other design changes pretty much destroyed the classic 60's pedal steel guitar tone. If you notice, most of the older guitars were longer (some considerably longer) than today's modern steels. The ZB's that I build are 35" long. Nearly 2" longer than modern guitars. Sustain. Wood selection makes a big difference. There are reasons why the Sho-Bud Pro Custom series did not sound like the big bodied round front Pro series. Many years ago I tried to recreate Tom Brumley's ZB sound on other steels. It couldn't be done. It was Mr. Seymour who sat me down and explained just why and all about steel guitar onstruction, Thank you Bobbe Seymour. What he told me was confirmed by other old time builders. The final factor in the tone change is the amplifier, and I am a firm believer in tube amps now to get the classic 60's pedal steel tone. Ken Fox knows this and I believe that he has just designed a wonderful sounding and highly reliable tube steel amp for the steel community. Bottom line is Bobbe Seymour has been there and done it with the likes of Harry and David Jackson. When he talks, it comes from years and years of practical experience. I was very fortunate to interview him for Steel Guitar World Magazine in the 90's.

[Eric West]

I SWEAR I will read it...

I do seem to think that more accurately wound pickups instead of just how much wire they could put on them in the middle Sho~Bud era made for clearer tone. Danny SHields wound my now worn out SC pickup for my ProIII "so that it was closer to a bigsby". I don't know the size of wire, but it was wound prett light.

Also I remember that he like I think JCD used standard (by today's standards) gauge strings tuned down a whole step. Danny's main axe was a D11MSA tuned D9. I don't remember how he tuned the extra string.

Probably the most often ignored factor in getting good tone is new or newer strings.

How about it Reece...?



EJL

[Kevin Hatton]

Shakespere, you had to...

[Eric West]

I know.. like I don't even read it, comment on what it "might" say, and then light a match....

Oh well.



EJL

[John Bechtel]

About the Emmons P/P having such a distinctive sound, I have a friend who always played a Sho-Bud PSG, but; last night I saw and heard him playing his Emmons PSG. If I hadn't seen him I would have definitely thought he was playing his Sho-Bud. I agree about the “distinctive sound”, but; I can't give all the credit (blame) to construction! I had the same experience back in the early 60's with a friend playing his Epiphone and then switching to playing my Sho-Bud! He still sounded like his Epiphone!!

[Ken Byng]

About the Emmons P/P having such a distinctive sound, I have a friend who always played a Sho-Bud PSG, but; last night I saw and heard him playing his Emmons PSG. If I hadn't seen him I would have definitely thought he was playing his Sho-Bud. I agree about the “distinctive sound”, but; I can't give all the credit (blame) to construction! I had the same experience back in the early 60's with a friend playing his Epiphone and then switching to playing my Sho-Bud! He still sounded like his Epiphone!!

I was playing my push pull indoors the other evening. My wife was listening, and said "That guitar sounds a lot brighter and clearer than your ShoBud". I had the identical settings on my amp that I normally use. Now if my wife can hear a difference it must be very apparent because she has no concept of tone or differences between steel guitar makes.

[Roual Ranes]

And I had just learned that Black sounds better.....

[Joe Finley]

Mallets play a big factor with the marimba. As do mallets so does picks/strings/bar weight/string pressure/attack. Material of instrument is a big factor but how a pickup is wound tends to be one of the bigest. Has anyone tried to interchange an old Emmons and Shobud pickup? We never tried that at the factory.

[Walter Bowden]

Going back to what Sonny said on pg 1 of this thread, I'd love to know what Bobbe S has forgotten!

[Bobbe Seymour]

Walter, it wouldn't take but a second to tell you!

Bobbe

[b0b]

Mallets play a big factor with the marimba. As do mallets so does picks/strings/bar weight/string pressure/attack. Material of instrument is a big factor but how a pickup is wound tends to be one of the bigest. Has anyone tried to interchange an old Emmons and Shobud pickup? We never tried that at the factory.

For many years I used a Sierra with quick-change pickups. My song lists would include notes on which pickup and bar to use for each song. Sometimes I'd forget to switch and no one noticed - not even me! This only happened when I was playing very well.

The sound envelope and resonant harmonics are created by the instrument, by the strings and by the player's technique. The coloring of those elements is controlled by the pickup and electronics. The sum of all of these things is what we tend to call "tone". This might seem obvious to some.

We hear that tone is in the hands, or tone is in the strings, or tone is in the guitar, or tone is in the pickup, or tone is in the amp. The truth is that all of these statements are correct. You can't even say that tone is "mostly" this or that, because any one of them can make or break your sound.

[Bobbe Seymour]

[Paddy Long]

So all these stories about the colour of the guitar being the most important ingredient is nothing but a myth ??????

I've had a string of black guitars, and I think have the blackest one of them all.

[Robert Harper]

I'm gonna let yous expert debate tone. My only comment is there is a difference in them ther Emmons push pull. I know it is a different subject, but why are they made any longer, cost, intimidation, as in I can't match that and I want try.