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Topic: Amp for Western Swing/Hillbilly Steel |
Benjamin Franz
From:
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 27 Dec 2009 5:43 pm |
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Hi all,
I'm looking into buying an amp. I'm playing western swing and 40's/50's hillbilly stuff with a fender D8. I'm wondering what you're all using. I'll need something that would cut a small bar when using a vocal only PA. Was considering a Fender deluxe (worried it might not be loud enough without breaking up too much) or a '59 bassman (worried it might be too powerful and clean.)
What do you all use? Are the current Fender reissues worth the money?
cheers,
Ben |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 27 Dec 2009 8:13 pm amp
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| The Peavey Delta Blues comes to mind. Not exactly the right tube comp but really does a great job. I love mine, looks like the 40's and sounds like it too. El84s instead of 6ls or 6vs but really sounds great. Esp with new speaker. You can find them for around 4 bills used. You can take it and bang around bars with it and not worry about your precious baby getting beat up. A workhorse amp that does a good job for the retro sound in a bar setting. Loud enough for a drummer without being miced? I think so. As long as the drummer isnt a basher. The kind of music you mention, definitely. For the money a great value, TC |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2009 8:39 pm
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My favorite amp, in that situation, is a Fender Pro 5D5 or 5E5. The 5D5(wide panel tweed) has a little more compression, grit, and warmth to it. The 5E5 (narrow panel tweed) has more clean headroom and volume, with a nice clarity on top.
For reissue, there are many "boutique" companies that make both the 5D5 and 5E5 models. If you want a new Fender, the "Lowpower" Tweed Twin is a nice reissue.
_________________
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 6:16 am
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| If you can't afford a real tweed era Pro, Deluxe, Tremolux, etc, then a Fender Blues Deluxe or Hot Rod Deluxe makes an affordable option. Two 6L6's putting out about 40 watts seems about right for what you describe. Plenty of clean but you can dial in a little grit if you like that early Noel Boggs sound. I had a tweed Blues Deluxe that sounded good and looked great with my '56 Stringmaster. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 8:32 am
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I don't think anything will beat a Fender Twin Reverb.
I've got an early silver face model with JBL speakers.
This is what I used extensively when playing my T-8 Stringmaster many moons ago.
Prior to that amp, I used a Fender Bassman along with a separate Fender Reverb unit.
That setup go a little to cumbersome for me so went with the Twin Reverb. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 11:30 am
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| Quote: |
| What do you all use? |
I have a retro gig playing a D8 Clinesmith and the amps I use are old Fenders (Deluxe's are perfect), Peavey nash 400 ( not the perfect sound but keeps working no matter what) and the main amp I use is a souped up Princeton made by Headstrong.
| Quote: |
| Are the current Fender reissues worth the money? |
Absolutely not.
For a little more money you can get a hand made amp. Find an amp builder near you or go with a Headstrong, Fox or something like that. For less money a Fender blues jr or Peavey tube amp will do the job at least as well and to my ear better than a "reissue".
I don't know what's available on your continent. In the world of tube amps it can be important who you have around to help with the repair/upkeep work. Your tech guy can tweek a tube amp to get the sound you want.
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Bob |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 1:03 pm
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Look at my 30 watt 4x10" amp. You can also read 3 different testimonials on this unique amp. The 92 watt steel guitar amp would be scary with lap steel!! I think too much amp.
I am also building a rendition of the 1954 Deluxe amp. I have done two. Another to be built this month as well. It is a killer amp with a paraphase inverter like the 1954-1955 Bassman amps used. Jeff Saine (who owns serial #0002, 5D6B) is putting one together that I built in a Mojotone cab very soon. The amp arrived and he is just waiting on the cabinet. Check out Jeff playing #0002 with his 1938 Rick on my website:
http://foxvintageamps.com/classic_green_010.htm |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 1:53 pm
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Since you say "vocal only PA" I assume you do not have the option for mic'ing the steel amp. In that situation, I tend to use (with my D-8 Stringmaster) a Peavey LTD 400 or a Showman head into a single 15" cabinet with a JBL D130F. I like some headroom for the steel, and it want it clean and warm (if possible).
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 2:34 pm
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An interesting fact about power and number of speakers is worth noting here. A 30 watt amp with 4 speakers has the same SPL (volume) as a 120 watt amp with one speaker! Ever wonder why a 4-10" Bassman was so popular!
Read this from the internet:
Amplifier output -
It takes 2 times the power from an amp to change the volume 3dB. In other words if an amp is producing 1 watt of power it needs to increase to 2 watts of power to make a 3dB change. This is a ratio of 2:1. By the same token if the amp is producing 50 watts of power it will need to increase to 100 watts to produce a 3dB change. 100 watts would take 200 watts for that same change.
How much power would it take to Increase the SPL 10dB? It will take 10 times the power to increase the SPL by 10dB! In other words, if your amp was producing 50 watts of power you would need to increase it to 500 watts to achieve a 10dB increase. (fig A&B) As you can see it takes a lot of power to get a small increase in volume.
Number of Speakers is a factor that effects volume. This concept is not as simple as it first appears. If we double the number of speakers we will increase the SPL by 3dB. Here is an example. If you have a 50 watt amp with one 12" speaker and you add another 12" speaker you will get the magic 3dB increase. You would have the same SPL as a 100 watt amp with one 12" speaker. To get the next 3dB increase we need to double the speakers again so we would need four 12" speakers. Having 4 speakers will give us a 6dB increase in SPL compared to 1 speaker. Sounds like the same system as the power ratio above doesn't it. Here is were the complex part comes in. If we double the 4 speakers to 8 speakers you would think that there would be a 9dB increase in SPL compared to one speaker, right? Nope. What we get is only a 6dB increase compared to one speaker. Huh? We have now introduced a new factor to this equation...Phase Cancellation. (fig C) In short the distance between the speakers causes the sound to reach your ears, from some of the speakers, at a different time . This has the effect of canceling some of the sound. So...More speakers are better up to a point. |
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Casey Lowmiller
From:
Kansas
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 3:07 pm
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Bob Hoffnar gets some GREAT tone with his amp and axe. Very authentic and very good sounding. Like he said, the reissues aren't worth the money that they want for them.
Tom's idea of a LTD 400 isn't bad either. Tons of power, clean headroom, warm sound and built like a tank. Decent;y light-weight too!!!
Ken Fox is building great amps...I've heard nothing but good about them.
Casey
_________________
Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan" |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 3:14 pm
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I have had great results with a Mesa/Boogie Maverick (40 watts) and two 12" Tone Tubby speakers. It seems counter-intuitive, but I've never felt that I didn't have enough power on stage with this setup.
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Benjamin Franz
From:
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 3:50 pm
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| Thanks all for the replies. While vintage amps aren't unobtainable here, they are rare and to import them from the States is an expensive proposition. When I say a vocal PA, that's not necessarily the situation every gig, but is a situation I would need to have covered. |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2009 6:20 am
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I used a Fender Twin amp (not the reverb model)with my Fender T-8 in the late 50's up to mid 60's to get the sound I was hearing on the records. It was bright and no too bassy. No reverb or other effects were used.
You can duplicate that sound on most amps by turning off all reverb and other effects, and turning the bass (low) down and keeping the treble and presence adjusted to get the brightness you need.
Don't forget the Standel amps.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2009 9:48 am
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| Jim that is the very amp we are building for steel guitar, just a 15" speaker instead of the 2-12" speakers. Also an adjustable bias for the power tubes. |
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Paul Foster
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2010 6:22 pm Fender amp
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| I have 2 amps that I really like, one is a fender blues deville with 4-10's plus reverb, reminds me of the old BASSMAN ONLY with modern upgrades, love that amp I also have a Peavey vegas 400 which we all know is a super steel amp, has a "Bite" that will have you looking for ear plugs and the Fender is great as well, if I had to make a choice as to which one I would have to keep, it would be BOTH! Both great amps, you could probably get a used Peavey a little cheaper, just shop around, I found mine for a hundred bucks, with a small tear in the grill cloth ,has a 15in Black Widow! |
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Wally Taylor
From:
Hardin, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2010 11:29 pm
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Hillbilly steel............really??  What in the Sam Hill is hillbilly steel? 
Wally |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2010 6:45 am
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In the 40's to early 50's there was 'hillbilly','western', 'cowboy' labels applied to the music I was playing in western Oklahoma. I played with a band that was called the "Swingbillys", and we played Spade Cooley, Tex Williams, and Bob Wills stuff.
Didn't Dwight Yokum make a little money from a record of 'Cadillacs and Hillbilly Music'? Also, Hank Williams music was called 'hillbilly'.
It's just labels.
Thanx,
Jim |
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