Is it cool to offer constructive criticism?

[Kenneth Farrow]

Mike--I repeat--criticism nyet, positive reinforcement/encouragement si--you displayed absolutely the right behavior--hints and tips from Heloise ONLY if specifically requested or if a paid student--err on the side of caution--be cool--lay low--ken in alaska

[Joe Miraglia]

Joe
In 1971 I had only been conscientously playing about 3 or 4 years, and I certainly wasn't at the level of John Hughey. I also was not so full of myself that I was unable to accept an unsolicited but extremely helpful suggestion from a player I admired very much.

So what, if any, is the point of your post?

I've criticized,but construtively Joe

[Ray Montee]

JERRY BYRD confided in me one day and explained how one of his biggest regrets was the outcome of some of his most sincere attempts to be helpful thro' constructive criticism.........

Jerry routinely hand wrote some 5-600 letters each and every year for decades. A most sincere person and teacher.

Folks from all over the world would send him tapes of their playing and beg for his suggestions and/or
constructive comments. Some would even send money for this 'service'.

But as he explained, "More often than not, the fan simply did not want to hear the truth about their playing and would typically take great offense at his words."

To the true artist in whatever field, errors by others in this same endeavor, are so glaringly obvious. Since the true artist most sincerely wants to see the wanna-be succeed in their efforts........they function with the concept of there is no HALF-TRUTH. It's either right; or, wrong.

Jerry acknowledged that even in later years, he "just couldn't lie to a student about their playing and as a result, he likely lost quite a few".

A lot of folks these days seem to harbor an attitude about how great they are.........and choose to deny or ignore the facts that clearly show that they are not as great as they believe themselves to be.

As a flight instructor and a driving instructor on BIG RIGs.......one can readily determine who is going to be a good pilot/driver and who isn't. You need not ride it all of the way into a crash to figure it out.

[Tommy Shown]

Everybody has had some good to say about constructive critisism. I have too have been in bands where someone will say man you nailed that song. I am the type that if you are honest with me, I'll respect you a lot. Because there is always someone better, someone always has a better technique in doing a particular lick. It's like what Herb said, when Jay Dee Maness spoke to him about rolling the bar to get better vibrato. Jay Dee was trying to help Herb by giving a suggestion. To me Jay Dee was being constructive. My main issue I have is the blocking on speed picking. I have a problem in trying to pick it clean. Slow songs and ballads are no problem. But speed is my biggest weakness on the steel guitar. I usually would let the lead man work the fast stuff. And would fill in where needed.
Tommy Shown
SMFTBL

[Rick Campbell]

As a flight instructor and a driving instructor on BIG RIGs.......one can readily determine who is going to be a good pilot/driver and who isn't. You need not ride it all of the way into a crash to figure it out.

Yes, I agree with that. I've taught a lot of people to fly and I know what you mean. Some just feel it and others try to do it mecanically. One of the DE's I used told me that he could tell on the taxi out if the student would pass his checkride. I never had one to fail.

[Don Sulesky]

Several years ago I started to play an intro to a song I had just started to learn.
The guitar player said to me you're doing it all wrong.
Now I knew he played a little steel.
So I said to him "if you can play it better, then show me" and I started to get up off my seat.
Knowing he couldn't. He just shut his mouth and walked away.
That was the end of it.
I now play it correctly now that I've played the song many times since then.
Now I only give CC to my students in an encouraging manner because most of them are beginners and are all ears.
I don't want them to start off with any bad habits as I did when there wasn't any teachers to instruct me otherwise.
Don

[ebb]

im wondering if you felt this was constructive

You've got some pretty wonky glissandos on the bottom end in there

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... e+mukogawa

[Mike Perlowin]

im wondering if you felt this was constructive

You've got some pretty wonky glissandos on the bottom end in there

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... e+mukogawa

Hey, ANYTHING with a Mr Green emoticon is cool with me.

[Herb Steiner]

This football is being kicked around a lot, but really the issue shouldn't be the response by the listener. IMHO the issue is with the initial statement and that's fairly easy to quantify.

If the statement contains information beneficial to improvement, it's constructive and probably intends to be helpful. If the statement only tears down without any beneficial info at all, it's destructive and probably meant to be hurtful.

Example of constructive criticism: "You're sliding the bar. You'll get a warmer vibrato if you try rolling the bar."

Example of destructive criticism: "Your vibrato sucks, big time."

The sidebar issue is how the player accepts the criticism. If he can't handle constructive criticism, my feeling is he probably can't handle ANY criticism. And that means he probably has a LONG way to go...

[Ben Jones]

right on Herb, thats my take on it also.

I feel bad for the advice givers, all they get is greif and all they are trying to do is help.
Personally I wouldnt offer any unsolicited advice, even tho I'd love to receive some.

Usually at a gig there will be one or two other steelers there. After the show they tell me I sound great. I think next time, instead of thanking them and smiling at their compliment, I will ask them if there was anything they thought I could be doing to sound better.

Ive been told in the in the old days, a guy might (and did) drive from canada down to nashville to seek the advice of a pro. Now we have the internet and the adivce can come to us if the people that know are willing to share. That is becoming rarer and rarer and I just wish that when on those rare occasions when it did happen, we could accept the help without argument, with respect and gratitude, and without investing our internet egos into trying to one up the advice giver, so that they might be encouraged to particiapte and share more with us instead of asking themselves "geesh, why'd I bother?".

[Ernie Pollock]

Mike, I remember one time I was playing at a local dance hall & bar, a guy who had always liked my guitar playing came up to me & said "Ernie, I think you should take that steel guitar home & get rid of it, cause you just don't have it for steel", of course his remarks destroyed me & I took a little of his advice & put the MSA D-10 under my bed & never touched it for about 3 months & went back to playing guitar. I finally got the steel out again & got back into it, trying even harder than before. Hell, who knows, maybe it was for the best cause I eventually got the hang of it played steel for the next 30 years or so. You just don't really know how one person can destroy another one it you don't try!!

I have another story along the same line, but I asked for that one, a good steeler came in the Elks club & at break time I ran up to him, like an idiot [which I was], asked him what area of the steel guitar I needed the most work on, he said "all of it" & of course that destroyed me for the night so I asked him to set in & play the last set for me, which he did. Today, I might add that he is one of my closest friends & I love him like a brother, but, brother that sure did hurt!!

Ernie Pollock

[David Hartley]

I always gave constructive criticism to John Stannard, (our lead gutarist). At the end of each gig, I used to say "John, you played terrible tonight, but at least your tone was bad" !

[Dave Mudgett]

Unless you know what is constructive or destructive to a particular player (or student in general), how can you know what is 'constructive criticism'?

So unless I am in a formal teaching role - in which case, I am expected to give feedback as part of my job - unless I think I know how my criticism will be taken, I shut up. Even in a teaching role, if the goal is to help, then one should try to figure out what will help, and avoid things that are not helpful, and especially things that might be destructive.

This doesn't mean that criticism isn't sometimes appropriate. If I feel that I know someone well enough to gauge their reaction, I might give it. But I think the doctor's adage, 'First do no harm.', is just as valid here.

To put it more bluntly - and in my opinion - to offer gratuitous criticism without any idea of its effect is analogous (don't take the analogy too far, though) to shooting a gun without knowing what target it will hit. In interfering, one takes a level of responsibility for the effect of that interference.

My opinions, YMMV, and all that. If you disagree, I agree that at a certain level, it's a free country and you can say what you want. But then I would ask - "Who did you say you're trying to help?"

[Cal Sharp]

For all you baseball fans - managers handle players in different ways. He'll scream at them, gently suggest an alteration in their batting stance, have a formal meeting in the clubhouse, leak something to the the press, or do whatever he thinks will get results, and a good manager knows his players. Depends on the player, his salary, and the manager's people skills. If you're going to criticize somebody's playing, whatever your motivation, it might be prudent to consider the above.