Is it cool to offer constructive criticism?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Dec 2009 8:11 am

James Morehead wrote:This is a classic time to go into "I can't save the whole darned world" mode.

Good point., I don't want to save the whole world, just want to save enough to go to 5 Guys and get a burger .

t

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 21 Dec 2009 8:21 am

Mike, there have been times when others have complimented me on how my playing added to their song. AND there have been times when I wasn't doing the playing right. They have been constructive in telling me, I take it as motivation to build my confidence up. Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses, by not slamming them. That's like being here on the Forum,everyone has different ways of playing. I read and try to learn the many ways of doing it. I respect everbody's opinion because even though I have been playing for 30 years, there is always someone that has a better way of playing. I guess one never stops learning. Paul, I look at you as one of the masters of the steel. Mike I know you have done some outstanding playing.
Tommy Shown

Harold Liles Jr · Post by **Harold Liles Jr** » 21 Dec 2009 8:39 am

Interesting topic Mike. I can appreciated that the situation must be handled differently with different people. I usually try to strike up a conversation with a musician when he's on break and try to get a sense of how he thinks then go from there..

I will relate a story that happened to me in Oklahoma City one time. A bunch of guys I worked with had all gathered at a local water hole to have a few drinks and listen to the band. The band itself was pretty good but the singer didn't have a clue about how to tune a guitar. I'm surprised the lead player didn't do it for him. I really found it most irritating and after a substantial quantity of beer I did something I had never done and havent done since, I actually started razzing the singer and giving him a hard time..He got tired of it and stepped up to the mike and said "if the loudmouth out front can do any better he's welcome to try", so I got up, tuned his guitar, and started singing. I left the stage after 3 standing ovations and a thank you from the singer. I'm embarresed to relate this but sometimes you just gotta do what seems right at the time..

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 21 Dec 2009 9:30 am

I like to THINK that I would like it if someone came up to me after a show, told me they played, and offered some constructive criticism or suggestions ...but it would probably depend on the way in which it was worded. I dont have any ego invested in this instrument so I'm fine with learning whatever, whenever and however i can and am not above any suggestions or insight even at a gig. If I meet another steel player I auto assume he knows more than me and most often I am correct in that assumption.

Like everyone else said tho, your probably better off just not saying anything, which is kind of a shame cause ya know Im sure your advice would be helpful. It would be kinda sad to miss out on help
from great players like Mike and Paul because of my ego.

Mike if you ever see me play, let me have it afterwards, dont hold back.

Paul Franklin that goes double for you

just dont do it in front of the chicks

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 21 Dec 2009 9:58 am

There's lots of ways of sharing and teaching without telling people what they are doing wrong.

Jerry Bull · Post by **Jerry Bull** » 21 Dec 2009 11:00 am

I really like this topic.
I need to warn all of you, that if you see me playing somewhere and you want to critique my playing, be prepared to be bothered profusely, because I will bug you to death (not literally)trying to extract every last bit of steel guitar knowledge that you will share. I have developed a keen sense of radar when it comes to picking out "pickers". I will play all night in hopes of that one person, you've seen them, that one person who is watching everything your doing, he's not just listening to only the steel, but he/she is paying close attention to your right and left hand movements and making mental notes of your set-up by watching your pedals/levers in conjunction with the notes being played. I almost feel like a stalker, instead of watching the pretty girls dancing right in front of me, I'm checking out the crowd trying to find another steel player so I can bug the hell out them and bleed them of all the knowledge I can drink. My wife thinks I have something wrong with me. (seriously) Maybe I do... It just occurred to me, I'm that guy in the crowd!!!. When I'm somewhere listening to a local band, I'm focused on the steel player trying to learn something from him. (the wife hates that) and if there is no steel player, I'm outta there in a New York second. (she hates that too) I think I've just admitted to being a lunatic in love with a musical instrument..........I'm doomed.
Mike, I guess my answer to your original question would be,,,,,it really depends on where a person is in there journey of the study of steel guitar. But I personally think if you plant a seed by letting them know you are a "picker" while they are on break and chatting small talk for a moment, if they are seeking help, they will in fact come to you for it. A word of CAUTION......I may be that guy!, if so, be ready for an escape plan, I am on a quest, and I don't know how much time on this earth I have-Jerry

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 21 Dec 2009 11:02 am

Mike When was the last time someone gave you some constructive critcism?Was it done in a proper way,what did you think of the person pointing it out to you? Joe

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Dec 2009 11:12 am

Personally, I would only offer constructive criticism in a lesson situation. If someone told me they value my opinion and wanted lessons, I'd listen to them and tell them about areas needing improvement. That's what a teacher does.

Think about how you feel at a gig -- you may be juiced with adrenaline and may have some 'nerves'. Not a good time to be told you suck.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 21 Dec 2009 11:22 am

Is it cool to offer constructive criticism?

only if asked for it

Larry has a good point about the teacher

Andy Jones · Post by **Andy Jones** » 21 Dec 2009 11:35 am

If I thought I could help someone(highly unlikely),I'd ask them if they would be open to a helpful tip or two.If they said no,they wouldn't have to worry about me wasting air on them again.

On the other hand,if a player approached me with a tip or some other helpful hint,I'd pull him up a chair and say"Let's see it"!I'm like Jerry,I'd pick him for anything I could use.I have found in my 57 years that anyone who crosses your path knows something that you don't know.I'm always open to new techniqes,better ways to play things or any other things that may improve my playing.In my opinion, only a fool won't take sound advice.JMHO

Andy
I know I stink

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 21 Dec 2009 11:46 am

Jerry...quit lookin' for steel players...most of 'em I know are pretty ugly anyway...LOOK AT THE PRETTY GIRLS!! That's why they're there!!!

If those guys wanna talk to you they will...Your wife is right!!

Jerry Bull · Post by **Jerry Bull** » 21 Dec 2009 11:53 am

Jack Francis wrote:Jerry...quit lookin' for steel players...most of 'em I know are pretty ugly anyway...LOOK AT THE PRETTY GIRLS!! That's why they're there!!!

If those guys wanna talk to you they will...Your wife is right!!

come on Jack, why you have to be like everyone else and agree with the wife.....

Gordon Hartin · Post by **Gordon Hartin** » 21 Dec 2009 12:03 pm

Hi Mike,

I think it's best to introduce yourself like..."Hey I'm Mike, I'm a steel player also, I started playing 28 years ago. It's a great instrument to learn."

And then see if he asks for any feedback.

Gordon

Jerry Bull · Post by **Jerry Bull** » 21 Dec 2009 12:06 pm

Gordon, that's perfect!!

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 21 Dec 2009 12:12 pm

Yup.Any of us almost inevitably goes into work mode as soon as we hear live music,particularly if there's a steel onstage,and there's nearly always a temptation to share our analysis of how they're doing.Giving in to the temptation depends on the circumstances of the moment,although I can think of one circumstance where I never ever do constructive criticism...When the steel player is showing me how it sounds when it's played right.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 21 Dec 2009 12:20 pm

Gordon Hartin wrote:Hi Mike,

I think it's best to introduce yourself like..."Hey I'm Mike, I'm a steel player also, I started playing 28 years ago. It's a great instrument to learn."

And then see if he asks for any feedback.

Gordon

I'm Joe I've been playing steel for over 50 yesrs,What was that you where going to say about my playing? Ok,You should have heard my playing 40 years ago.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 21 Dec 2009 12:46 pm

Joe Miraglia wrote:Mike When was the last time someone gave you some constructive critcism?Was it done in a proper way,what did you think of the person pointing it out to you? Joe

That's an easy one. It was Pete Grant, but it was a totally different situation. I was taking lessons from him. Pete was a great teacher, and I was, and still am, grateful for all his sage advise. I am a better player today because of it.

I don't know how I'd react if a perfect stranger walked up to me and did the same thing.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Dec 2009 1:09 pm

Mike,

Most likely it could be termed 6 of one kind, and a half dozen of the others, named for their willingness to assist, or quickly scramming to the bar and melting into the crowd. During the "breaks", it may prove more difficult trying to break through inquisitive "nonplayers" who have nothing in common with band members. Make it a point to stick around after the show, if possible, after the crowd clears out of the hallways.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 21 Dec 2009 1:26 pm

Mike you have to be careful how you approach a stranger
in that circumstance -- I might be best to just walk up and point
wile LOL -- and say Geeeees where did you learn to play - that’ll
brake the ice -- I get that all the time --

Don Barnhardt · Post by **Don Barnhardt** » 21 Dec 2009 1:33 pm

100% of people who don't ask for constructive criticism don't want it. 98% of people who ask for it don't want it either. Just say nice picking pal and let it go at that.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 21 Dec 2009 1:51 pm

I've had people walk up to me on break and ask: "Are you the one that was playing the fiddle up there?" I smiled and said "yes" expecting a compliment. Then they said: "Do you know where the drummer went to?"

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Dec 2009 2:12 pm

Rick Campbell wrote:I've had people walk up to me on break and ask: "Are you the one that was playing the fiddle up there?" I smiled and said "yes" expecting a compliment. Then they said: "Do you know where the drummer went to?"

Kool Rick...

or how about the very familiar one..coming off the stage from the Steel after a set someone says ," hey aren't you the keyboard player" ?
And I say..yes...

John Robel · Post by **John Robel** » 21 Dec 2009 3:27 pm

It all depends on the delivery. I am open to suggestions,but subscribe to the old cowboy saying, "you better smile when you say that".

Joe Gretz · Post by **Joe Gretz** » 21 Dec 2009 3:39 pm

Very few things are as unwelcome as unsolicited advise.

I love seeing live music. I like to find the good things a performer is doing and share that with them.

If someone REALLY wants constructive criticism, remember to keep it CONSTRUCTIVE!

Serving it gently can also make it easier to receive.

"Be kind, for we are all fighting a hard battle."
-Plato

Joe

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 21 Dec 2009 4:13 pm

Jerry..your right..what was I thinkin'?? $:\$