I'm Windows free for 60 days, oops, make that 7 months

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 18 Dec 2009 1:18 pm

http://www.ubuntu.com/

I did the dual boot install, so I still have Windows 'just in case' for some special app, but I haven't looked back. Nice...

Anybody know much about VMWare? I'd like to be able to do a virtual Windows box if I need it, rather than have to boot to Windows. It seems that you have to install windows inside the VMWare enviroment, even if you already have a Windows OS installed????

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 18 Dec 2009 2:15 pm

Bill Terry wrote:http://www.ubuntu.com/

I did the dual boot install, so I still have Windows 'just in case' for some special app, but I haven't looked back. Nice...

Anybody know much about VMWare? I'd like to be able to do a virtual Windows box if I need it, rather than have to boot to Windows. It seems that you have to install windows inside the VMWare enviroment, even if you already have a Windows OS installed????

I was just reading about another Virtual Machine called VirtualBox, which is free, from http://www.virtualbox.org/.

VirtualBox runs on Windows, Linux, Macintosh and OpenSolaris hosts and supports a large number of guest operating systems including but not limited to Windows (NT 4.0, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista, Windows 7), DOS/Windows 3.x, Linux (2.4 and 2.6), Solaris and OpenSolaris, and OpenBSD.

You are correct about having to reinstall Windows into the VM, which will become a mounted virtual disk during installation. You will also have to install Windows drivers for the hardware, all of your programs and licenses, and re-activate your Windows license to continue using the OS.

You should read the EULA for your version of Windows to see if it allows use in a VM environment. Some versions do not permit this.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 18 Dec 2009 2:21 pm

Thanks Wiz, I assumed that was the case. I'll look at the Virtualbox site as well. VMWare is also 'free' apparently, at least the 'VMWare Player' which is what I'd need I think...

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 18 Dec 2009 2:34 pm

Keep us informed about which VM you install and how it all works out performance wise and what hassles you encounter and have to overcome.

George Rozak · Post by **George Rozak** » 18 Dec 2009 7:49 pm

Hey Bill... I've been Windows free and Microsoft free for going on two years now. I've also been using Ubuntu. You won't regret it. I didn't even do the dual boot thing - just wiped out Windows and installed Linux. I can't see that I'll ever go back to Microsoft.

George

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 19 Dec 2009 5:37 am

I was just told about another OS that was better - Debian. At the same time the person told me that Ubuntu, Debian and another one I forget the name of, are all really Linux. Someone care to explain to this foggy brain?

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 19 Dec 2009 10:43 am

Linux is an operating system, featuring a "kernel" developed and maintained by Linus Torvalds and friends and associates. It is licensed for free under the GPL to others who create user-friendly interfaces for the kernel. Debian and Ubuntu are interfaces. Both use the same licensed kernel. Both are related and use the same packages (.deb) for updates to modules and software.

When one want to update a Debian or Ubuntu Linux computer, one uses Package Manager to find and install available updates. One cannot directly update Firefox via the browser in those operating systems. You must use Package Manager to do so.

I like Ubuntu and keep it updated, but use it rarely, as it doesn't support most of the programs I use every day (I know about WINE and tried it).

Don Poland · Post by **Don Poland** » 19 Dec 2009 11:56 am

I have PCLinuxOS9 running on my other laptop and I like it better than most others I have tried. You can download the ISO file and burn a LIVE CD and give it a try before installing it on your computer.

http://pclinuxos.com/

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Dec 2009 12:13 pm

You can download the ISO file and burn a LIVE CD and give it a try before installing it on your computer.

Hi Don, yeah, Ubuntu has the same feature. Definitely what you want to do first if you're not sure about this whole Linux thing.

I'm thinking about posting a long topic on the thrills and spills I had to get where I am today with Ubuntu. A couple of the things that happened to me might be kinda scary for somebody that isn't real computer savvy (some partition issues). If somebody wants to hear it.. let me know.

John Cipriano · Post by **John Cipriano** » 19 Dec 2009 3:05 pm

A Linux distribution consists of the kernel, the GNU tools, and various other software packages that are selected by the distribution maintainers. They may then set up the packages in various ways, including patching it. So, for example, Ubuntu's Firefox will differ in some ways from the Firefox you could "check out" from Mozilla's code repository, with the intent being that it works better on Ubuntu as a whole.

There is then typically a repository that you get this modified software from. The distro maintainers also make sure that the software in the repository meets a certain level of quality. So while there are nightly testing builds of Firefox available, you are only going to find stable releases in (stock) Ubuntu.

Now, with all that said, Ubuntu is based on Debian but where they differ is in the usual distribution details: which software they accept and what sort of things they do when they patch it.

Overall Ubuntu is more unified, maybe a little slicker. Debian is stricter about how "free" the included software is.

There are other differences, see here for more:
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/debian

Hardened linux guys will tell you to avoid Ubuntu because it holds your hand more, but for your first foray that may be what you're looking for. It's all free, so try it all if you like

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Dec 2009 3:17 pm

Hardened linux guys will tell you to avoid Ubuntu because it holds your hand more, but for your first foray that may be what you're looking for.

Exactly what I was told, and why I decided that Ubuntu was a good place to start.

I have a real propeller-head buddy who does a lot of open source development, and he says that the Debian/Ubuntu release is somewhat slower to pickup newest library releases, i.e. not so 'bleeding edge', but is somewhat more stable. Depends on what you want I guess.

John Cipriano · Post by **John Cipriano** » 20 Dec 2009 4:08 am

Ubuntu releases the desktop edition every six months, and they stick to what's stable. That might not be good if you want to play with new stuff as soon as it's out (probably a rolling release distro is best for that), but for getting work done with it, it's a good thing.

For people just wanting to try linux without messing with partitions, check out Wubi:

http://wubi-installer.org/

You end up with a copy of Ubuntu that you can boot into, but no partitions are changed and you can remove it in Windows' Add/Remove programs. Easy peasy.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 20 Dec 2009 9:50 am

Ubuntu on my desktop machine is fun for fooling around but cannot replace Windows because there is no complete driver for my sound card (sound goes out but not in).

But on the netbook it is another story. Ubuntu Netbook Remix changed my eeePC 901 from a doorstop to a useful machine.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 20 Dec 2009 9:52 am

John Cipriano wrote: For people just wanting to try linux without messing with partitions, check out Wubi:

http://wubi-installer.org/

You end up with a copy of Ubuntu that you can boot into, but no partitions are changed and you can remove it in Windows' Add/Remove programs. Easy peasy.

I tried wubi once but it was confusing to me. It seemed like Linux was running under Windows, which sort of defeats its whole purpose. Separate partitions seemed to make more sense.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Dec 2009 10:28 am

I have an older version of Ubuntu that I have on disc and run from disc just to play around with it. I need to update as the version I have is several versions behind the current one.

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 20 Dec 2009 12:12 pm

Would it be impolite to ask about the downside of Linux. Unfortunately, I am somewhat a doubting Thomas and don't believe Linux doesn't have its on set of pecularities,like all software packages, Windows are not

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 20 Dec 2009 12:30 pm

Not impolite at all.. and a good question. I'll defer to the heavies on this one, but I think the first thing that comes to mind is driver availability for specific hardware.

I've not gone too far into that on my Ubuntu PC, since I have a Mac G5 that is my audio/studio machine, but I would assume as EB mentioned earlier with his sound card issue, some stuff just doesn't work under Linux.

On my Dell desktop, all the audio (ins and outs) work fine, the DVD/CD reader/writer works fine..I haven't found anything I really need for this 'office' machine that doesn't work. The bundled office package seems to handle Word and Excel docs just fine.. I'm a happy camper so far, but Linux may not do what YOU need it to do.

John Cipriano · Post by **John Cipriano** » 20 Dec 2009 7:51 pm

Earnest Bovine wrote:I tried wubi once but it was confusing to me. It seemed like Linux was running under Windows, which sort of defeats its whole purpose. Separate partitions seemed to make more sense.

It uses the NT bootloader rather than LILO or GRUB. But otherwise it's the same as a conventional desktop linux install. Windows isn't running in the background or anything.

Robert: the major downsides of (desktop) Linux as I see them are:
- a lot of software is Windows-only
- many hardware manufacturers don't officially support it (though many do and generally it's not an issue)
- many people have invested years into learning Windows
- Mac OS, while suffering from some of the above, is a lot more polished

Some advantages that Linux has over other systems:
- freedom
- typically price, although paid support is available too
- runs on any hardware platform it's ported to (like ARM), which is basically all of them
- the repository method of software distribution

If ARM netbooks ever take off there will be a large part of the home hardware market that simply can't run Windows. It's a big if though.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 21 Dec 2009 4:24 pm

Well, I bit the bullet and installed VMWare Player and now have a functioning Windows XP virtual machine running under Linux. I looked at the VirtualBox that Wiz mentioned also, but decided on the VMWare since it seemed maybe a bit more Ubuntu-friendly and my Linux guru buddy mentioned earlier knows it well. I'm sure the VirtualBox would probably work just as well based on what I read.

After installing VMWare, which went quickly, you have to create the XP virtual machine which consists of a full Windows install. When you create the virtual machine The VMWare app asks you to select a 'disk size' for the new Windows VM, and then the Windows installation proceeds pretty much as normal, i.e. slowly, but inside a VMWare window. I used the 'reinstallation' version of XP on CD that came with my Dell desktop, and the installation completed without any issues.

So how does it work? Pretty well so far, although I haven't installed any apps yet, just messed with IE, notepad, media player, etc. I didn't really notice any difference in execution speed, or anything like that. In fact, if you expand the VM window to full screen, the only way to know you're not running a 'real' Windows box is the small VMWare menu that is that the top of the screen. It has some of the VMWare controls that allow you to stop the Windows VM, size the VM window, etc.

So how big was the hassle? Actually, other than the time-consuming Windows install phase, it went very smoothly. I did notice on one occasion that I used Windows Media Player in the Windows VM to play a CD, and then when I exited the VM, Linux didn't recognize the CD drive. Not sure what happened there, and haven't tried it since, but I may look on the Ubuntu forums for some info.

John Cipriano · Post by **John Cipriano** » 21 Dec 2009 6:43 pm

You might have to disconnect the CD drive from VMware. Or maybe "mount -a" in the terminal will work, if the CD just needs to be mounted again.

I'm surprised a Dell-provided copy of XP worked in VMware. Those copies look for a specific BIOS. But hey, if it works, it works.

I personally wouldn't bother with updating it, since it's just a VM and presumably you won't be using it heavily. Keeping the disk footprint down will help with speed, and you might run into the "this copy is not genuine" nag banner after installing SP3 (although if that happens, you can just nuke the VM and start over, or you can take a snapshot now and restore it later). Take a snapshot now anyway, it's nice to be able to roll back your OS completely if you are just trying out software and decide you don't want it, or for whatever other reason.

Give Wine a try, too. At this point it runs most software that doesn't require drivers. I've only had a couple of things not run in it.

But ultimately the best thing to do is to use linux software if it exists and matches the functionality of the Windows software. The variety and quality of FOSS out there always surprises me. If something isn't in the official Ubuntu repository (like Wine), it's easy enough to add their repository.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 23 Dec 2009 8:52 pm

I tried WINE with minimal success, probably user error, but since VMWare is working pretty well I'll probably just stay with it. I DID see somebody has a version of the Full Tilt Poker client that supposedly runs under WINE..

I was also sorta surprised that the Dell reinstall XP CD worked, In fact, going in I was pretty sure it wouldn't, but surprisingly enough no probs there. I wonder if it's locked to hardware somehow?

John Cipriano · Post by **John Cipriano** » 26 Dec 2009 12:29 pm

The difference with OEM-provided Windows discs is that they have a file that locks them to a specific BIOS. VMware uses their own version of Pheonix BIOS. Maybe it's not as strict as I thought, since I have read about people using Dell discs with Mac's Boot Camp and such.

Note that technically you are operating outside of the license terms, but since there is no physical way for you to run both copies at once I wouldn't feel too guilty about it.

Note that you can obviously go the other way, too: if you want to play around with linux in a VM you can install the free VMware player on Windows and download one of many pre-built linux VMs.

Is the CD thing still happening? I know I didn't have a good answer for it before, and I guess I still don't. But if you tell VMware to disconnect the drive before closing Windows, do you get it back in linux? It'd be nice if it was automatic, and indeed it is on my Mac, but first of all let's just see if there's a manual way to prevent the problem from happening.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 26 Dec 2009 11:04 pm

Congratulations! Ive been using ubuntu since 6.04, its a great Distro to learn on. I dual boot, using winxp to play a game I like, and thats about it.

Linux rarely works out of the box. Its like buying a kit bike, or in many instances buying a machine shop. The potential to do anything is there, but your skill set is the limiter. Ubuntu, fedora, mint and PClinux are the most complete desktop releases that you can find for the beginner, but they still need to be configured to work correctly and to their full potential. That potential can exceed anything that windows or mac can do, but your skill-set has to be there to get it. Its not for everybody, but after some effort the steep learning curve can be crossed.

My advice is to learn the command line as soon as you can, and start monkeying with config files to see what they do. Conky is a good learner, you learn about config without messing up system files.

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/conky-a-light ... stems.html

A couple notes about dual booting,

1. Linux is safer for web browsing as most viruses are written for windows. Use it for web surfing etc.

2. If you have a windows based program that doesnt work in wine, use it in windows and store the the results as normal. Then in linux you can mount the partition its on and pull the data off to the web safely.

3. Right tool for the job applies here, use the strong points of windows in windows, then boot into linux when you need Internet services.. Pain in the a$z? less so than removing a virus ridden hd to try and get usable data off of it.

4. moving web content from linux to windows, you need to use virus software to protect windows, not linux, but you need it none the less.

5. "Linux sux! I cant even download my stuff!" the difficulty in downloading is also the biggest safety factor.

Read pages like "the first things to do after a ubuntu install" and "the perfect ubuntu desktop".

Last advice, only use tutorials for your distro, if your using ubuntu9.10 dont do anything from a 7.04 tutorial etc. until you know what your doing.

GOOGLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND!

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 26 Dec 2009 11:10 pm

Oh yeah, also this:

http://ubuntustudio.org/

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/jud ... studio-904

oldy but a goody:
http://www.pctipsbox.com/top-10-linux-d ... roduction/

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 27 Dec 2009 6:19 am

As nice as VMWare is, I prefer a dual-boot system because of the reduced performance that VMWare ultimately brings (2 operating systems using the same resources at the same time). If your Windows activities are very resource-intensive, I think you'd probably be better off with a dual-boot.

Just my 2 cents.

The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm Windows free for 60 days, oops, make that 7 months

I'm Windows free for 60 days, oops, make that 7 months

Re: I'm Windows free for 3 days!

Is it perfect?