Why have the pedals moved out instead of in?

[Kenn Geiger]

When I see pictures of the old Sho~Buds the pedals were wider and the three pedals were just left of center.

I have an MCI, GFI, and an Emmons and ALL of them place the first narrow pedal as far to the left that they can, forcing me to twist my left leg so that my foot covers A+B. As soon as I stop watching the foot, it migrates to a more comfortable position over the C+4 pedal (where the A+B pedals were on the old Sho~Buds).

I cannot afford to buy a Sho~Bud. [I know, folks will think since I have 3 I must have money - I bought the first one, my kids bought the second as a Father's day gift and the third one I got from my aunt]

Is there a reason the pedals got smaller and moved out to the left? I think if a builder would make it a bit easier to reach them it would be easier to play them ~

Just my .03 cents (adjusted for inflation)

[Larry Bell]

One reason is cabinet drop. Try this:

Grab a couple of short pieces of 2x4 and place a yardstick on top with one piece of the wood block near each end.

Press gently near the middle. How far and how easily does it bend downward?

Now, press down with similar pressure, most of the way to the left, beside the left hand wood block. How far and how easily does it bend there?

Pedals mounted closer to the end will be less prone to bowing the cabinet causing detuning than those mounted as close to the left as possible.

If your left knee levers are properly positioned it won't matter where the pedals are.

[Alan Brookes]

...I have an MCI, GFI, and an Emmons and ALL of them place the first narrow pedal as far to the left that they can, forcing me to twist my left leg so that my foot covers A+B. As soon as I stop watching the foot, it migrates to a more comfortable position over the C+4 pedal (where the A+B pedals were on the old Sho~Buds)...

I agree entirely. Having gotten used to a Sho-Bud I find that the positions of the pedals and knee levers of other brands expect me to be a contortionist to work them. I always assumed that my body must have unusual dimensions. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[Mike Archer]

mine need to be all the way left on e9
as well as e knees
I have 2 bad legs and this is most comfortable
to me c6th dont matter all that much
most d-10s are set up that way anyway
Mike

[Kenn Geiger]

If your left knee levers are properly positioned it won't matter where the pedals are.

Larry, So if I am understanding you correctly, I should shift the left knee levers farther left to compensate?

Thank you for your reply as well, and Allen I am also glad to read I am not alone.

Kenn

[Larry Bell]

Maybe, Kenn. It depends whether it's actually the narrower pedals and consequent greater distance between them that gives you problems.

As has been pointed out, on a D-10 you don't have the option of starting the pedals closer to the center since most D-10s use 8 or more pedals. There just isn't room.

For example, it's important to comfortably be able to combine
* A and B pedals, rocking easily on and off each individually
* A and B pedals with the E to D# lever and be able to rock on and off the A pedal
* A pedal and F lever rocking on and off the A pedal
* move from A+B to B+C

there are others, but these are among the most important

The height of your guitar, length of your legs, positions of the levers relative to the pedals, and lots of other factors determine how well your guitar fits YOU. It's not a one-size-fits-all instrument.

[Brint Hannay]

For example, it's important to comfortably be able to combine
* A and B pedals, rocking easily on and off each individually
* A and B pedals with the E to D# lever and be able to rock on and off the A pedal

This last is especially not a problem if you have the E to D# lever on the right knee (RKL, usually) a la Sho-Bud.

[Bo Legg]

On a double 10 with 8 pedals I have to stagger the A B C pedals for the E9 to compensate for rocking the pedals and my left leg being slanted to the left due to the pedals being set far to the left.
I don't know why the pedals are flat on the top since I can't in most instances ever put my foot flat on the pedal.
If you stagger the pedals or rock on the flat top pedals you are mostly playing on the edges of the flat top pedal.
A round top pedal would be more efficient since it would always fit the position of your foot no matter how severe the stagger and or pedal rocking.

[Scott Howard]

Bo
I read some where , that there was a great deal of time in coming up with the original push / pull Emmons pedals for this reason. They were rounded as you are descibing and very comfortable.

I also played with my A pedal in what would have been the C pedal location of a factory MSA with Emmons setup and I am not talking about playing Day setup. This would have been location 4 on the pedal rack because # 1 was normally not used on a 8 pedal guitar. I have since had to change and play the pedals with the other foot.

[Bill Moore]

The "pedals toward the center" set-up is more comfortable for someone that is shorter in stature. I'm 6' tall, it doesn't work for me. I need the pedals to the left. I suggest that you check your seating position in relation to the guitar. Most of the best players sit toward the right end of the guitar, usually with the center of their body in line with about the 15th fret. If you do that, you will notice that the left leg must extend at an angle toward the pedals. That position actually makes it more comfortable to activate the pedals. Your heel will be located in line with the C pedal, the ball of the foot at an angle, over the A+B pedals. The motion required to rock between the A+B pedals will be much more comfortable. You won't need to twist the ankle as much.

[Alan Brookes]

I'm more concerned with the position of the knee levers than the pedals. You can move your seat left or right to compendate for pedal positions, but ending up with your legs diagonal so that you can keep your feet on the pedals and also work the knee levers becomes uncomfortable very quickly.

[Bill Moore]

Alan, my opinion, based on my experience and lots of observation of the best players, the right leg should be at 90 degrees, with that knee between the right side levers, the left leg should be at an angle, the left foot at an angle as it contacts the AB pedals. That's much more comfortable to me, it gives stability to the operation of the volume pedal, and requires less twist of the left ankle on the pedals. For this to work, the left side levers should be located slightly to the right of the pedals. Just as they are on most guitars built today. Even if one is less than average height, I think this is the best way. In that case moving the left pedals/levers to the right might help, while still maintaining that seating position.

[Larry Hamilton]

As a "Day" player, when I got my Le Grande II, My foot just naturally went to the first two pedals, instead of the 2-3 postion. In other words it just didn't "fit". I played it for nearly 7 years and just couldn't get it to fit.

I was determined not to let it "play" me but I guess it finally did. I sure miss the tone but...

I have had two guitars built with the pedal starting a little further to the left and they fit like a glove but not quite the Emmons sound. Maybe some day I'll be able to have both.

In the mean time I'll enjoy what I have.

Merry Christmas to all.

[Scott Howard]

I sit at the guitar and then look at the guitar as to where is comfortable. I move whatever needs to be moved to fit me . Putting A & B at the most cofortable & natural spot when you sit down and work from there. When you make the guitar fit YOU in the long run you will be happier with it.

I hope this makes sense as I am not very good at explaining what I mean to say .