Room Acoustic Treatment

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Room Acoustic Treatment. How does someone know when enough is enough?

Is there a tool or device to measure and tell when a treated room is acousticaly just right?

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Although the acoustics can play an important part of the recording as noted the mixdown is probably the most important part.

An "accoustically correct" studio probably isn't the "best".

I don't have any high priced mixdown software - just my Sonar (8.5.1) but what I do has pleased local singers. In fact, I've got a CD that a local singer made in Nashville (at a well known studio in Music Sq W) and apparently one of these "here it is" packages with no recourse for any remixes and the guy asked me if I could do anything for it. On my studio monitors (Samson Resolve 6.5a)the mix sounds pretty good but when played on most other players there is too much bass and the singer seems to be "down in the mix". Sadly, with it being mixed and the way it is there is nothing I can do for it.

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

Jack,

Have you tried to use any mastering software, and especially multiband compression to help the Nashville mix you mentioned? Maybe EQ to bring the vocals more to the front. I've come to believe that mastering is where a lot of people drop the ball in the recording process.

Smile

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I don't have any "mastering" software other than what is built into Sonar (I have the latest Sonar 8.5.1 Professional Edition). I brought a couple of the songs into Sonar and tried some of the EQ and compression plug-ins and whatever I tried may help one thing but screw up something else. The singer sounds like it was left completely dry - nothing added (I usually add a very slight reverb using the Sonitus Plug-In just to give it a little "presence").

Overall the product leaves a lot to be desired (including some of the instruments and instrument sound)and not something that would come out of a "professional" studio.

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

I guess it depends on what you call a "professional" studio. If the goal is to get them in and out and take the money ASAP, that's one thing. If you're looking for quality, that's something different. I get the feeling that some of the good studios in Nashville sub their downtime out to package deal guys with apprentice engineers to do the CD's like you mentioned. If it was just a matter of the equipment involved, anyone could be a good steel player, a great painter, etc....

I was thinking multiband compression to calm the bass frequencies down without effecting the rest. I think we're on the same page about the reverb. Sometimes you can direct it toward certain frequencies too. I usually add just a touch to the two track mix when I'm mastering to give the whole thing some sparkle. Sometimes, there's just nothing you can do. It's probably due to the original mix having instruments competing for the same space in frequency and L-R balance. You can't don't much about that after the fact. If the vocals are really low, you might have her sing them again on a new track and you mix it with the two track, and of course tame the bass some way.

Smile

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Quote:

"An "accoustically correct" studio probably isn't the "best". "

Could you elaborate on that?
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mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

I was privy to watch a control room being tuned. This was years ago and the way that it was done was with Altec passive eq boxes. They only attenuated the bumps and strived to get everything as flat as possible.

I am sure that with today's sophisticated electronics that achieving a totally flat room is doable, but the question is, do you really want that?

As has been mentioned before, everything sounds great in a flat room, however projects when played somewhere else will tend to sound dull and lifeless. It is a matter of that most gear is not setup to faithfully reproduce a flat signal. What I am talking about is car stereos, and normal home gear.

To counteract that, we had a "house curve" done at the studio where we rolled off the top end at around 2db per octave. That forced us to eq a little more to get what we considered a good sound. The result was it sounded normal in the studio, and passed muster on equipment outside of the studio.

Hope this helps.
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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

My "teacher" was a guy in a small studio in Kansas City, MO who had learned from an engineer in Nashville. This was back in the mid/late 70's and there were no computers or high end gear in his studio. His thing was mixdown so it sounded good on a cheap transistor radio.

I don't mixdown to a "transistor radio", but I do burn test CD's and play them on various audio CD players including a Sony Boom Box, car stereo, etc. I've done enough that I have a "close" idea of what I need to do, so it's not as many mixdowns until I get what I want and sometimes I even hit it on the first "final mix". But, as noted I don't have "real" mastering software so I have to do more manual things with EQ's, compression, Spectrum Analyzer, etc.

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

I'm no expert, and I certainly don't mean to come across as someone who thinks they are, but I've been doing this for a long time, and I've read about every book and watched every video on the subject. I'm just trying to share some technique that I learned the hard way. It's just ideas and live playing an instrument, there's a lot of different ways to get the same sound.

I understand the transistor radio thing. I used to do a lot of session work the older engineer there would use a pair of cheap car wedge speakers to do his final mix. He said it it sounds good on this, it will sound good on anything. That was a pretty good practice at the time, but now cars have much better sound systems, and EQ is not as easily controlled on them as it used to be. If you use the cheap speaker idea, you'll probablly end up with too much bass when it's played on a decent system.

Whoever said that you don't need a completely flat room is right. You can't reproduce that anyway. I think the important part comes with experience using your own equipment and in your room, and a lot of mix and run out to the car to listen trips. Also, I think recording engineering is very much like playing on sessions, and you're your own worst critic, and you'll always hear things that later that you'll think you should have done differently.

Jack - Mastering software is no big deal. It just makes working with the two track, arranging songs, overall volume balance, etc.... easier to do. Someone with your experience can do the same thing using the tools available.

Smile

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Aloha Rick,

I don't have a spectrum analysis in my equipment to measure these waveforms but here's some questions I hope you could answer.

One side of the room I'm using has a window covering 2/3rds of the wall, not to mention the drapes. Should acoustic treatment be used on this side?

How much bass traps should I use in the corners?
The height of my room is 9 feet. Should bass traps be lined the entire 9 feet on all four corners?

Thanks for your help. Very Happy

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

You're in luck. Windows, being smooth surfaces, reflect the sound waves, which is not good. It screws up what you think you're hearing with reflections that are out of sync with the real music. Remember sound travels relatively slow...1125 feet per second. This is why you can see fireworks a few miles away and hear the boom seconds later. Anyway, enough physics. Your solution is simple, close the drapes. Irregular surfaces disrupt the reflective action. You might not need bass traps. If you get a buildup of bassy sounds, try setting something in the corners of the room (table with lamp, bookshelf, etc...) before you spend a lot on acoustic treatment. No, they don't need to be the entire floor to ceiling. I assume this is a home recording studio??? You can spend a fortune on room treatment and the room will still have it's own sound that you'll have to learn and adapt to. If this is a professional studio, then I'm not qualified to even discuss it, but I can steer you to someone if you'd like.

Many studios have more equipment than they know how to operate effectively. The advantage of a home studio is that you might not have as expensive equipment as a pro studio, but you can compensate for some of that with taking all the time you need to work on the tracks, mix, mastering, etc.... where with a pro studio time equals money.

Have fun! Post some or your recordings for us to listen to.

Smile

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Hi Rick,

Yes, this is for a home recording studio.
Thanks for your help! Very Happy

Gene Wilcox · From: Kingman AZ USA

Room treatment is expensive and complex. Having built a few studios designed by pro's there are quite a few techniques you can employ to get some great results at a reduced cost. In a nutshell, that last 10% of control is exponential cost wise. Certainly reducing the standing waves in the corners of a room is a good place to start.

Here is some good reading on the subject:
http://www.acoustics101.com/

The website is Auralex and yes, they would like to sell you product.
http://www.auralex.com/

Their room treament questionaire, http://www.auralex.com/aoc/default.asp

I have seen these packages used to very good effect.

I don't work for Aurelex or have any vested interest in their products.

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

Don't get me started on this Neutral

As Gene says this is complex.
I think the "acousticly correctness" makes much more difference than we generally realise.
What's the point of spending big money on high end speakers and other equipment if the room destroys the sound?
In many cases that money would have been better spent on acoustical treatment.

Derrick,
Since i don't know anything about your room or what problems you might be experiencing, i will be general.
A basic "dead/live end" (where the front end of the room is acousticly dead while the rear end is "alive") contruction is fairly easy to obtain.
Do you have the "mirror surfaces" damped?
That is basicly that all surfaces where your monitor speakers would reflect in a mirror should be damped out.
That takes the early reflections out.
The reflection from side walls, table or mixing console etc. will hit your ear a few miliseconds later than the direct sound from the speaker, not enough to hear, but enough to blur the details.

Another common problem is low frequency standing waves, typicly between the front and rear walls.
These standing waves will probably appear from 30-50 Hz depending on the room size.
This is quite easy to discover by playing music and moving around the room.
Very often you will notice a concidreable amount of low bass at the back wall and a thin sound every other step away from that wall. Simplyfied this is caused by the reflected soundwaves colliding and neutralising each other.
Because of this it's not unusual that when you apply bass absorbtion to a room you experience more bass at listening position. And more important, you will a more consistant, even sound when you move around in the room.
I'm sorry to say that i learned the hard way that there are products sold as "bass traps" wich really aren't close to being what they are called.
For a solid soft absorber to absorb the real low freqencies it will have to be 6-7 feet deep and even then it wouldn't be too effective.
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James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

This setup worked great for me !!....Jim

http://www.realtraps.com/

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Thanks everyone. Very Happy

Jason Hull · Posted 16 Jan 2010 3:11 pm **acoustic foam**

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Thanks Jason Very Happy

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

David Winfrey · From: Oklahoma, USA

The idea that a mixing or mastering room should not be as acoustically flat as possible is ludicrous. Why not just do a mix in your living room if it doesn't matter?
The entire idea of a control room and studio monitors is to have the sound reproduced as accurately as possible. That way you know what is in the mix. Otherwise you are just playing a guessing game. Any good mixdown engneer will listen to the mix on a variety of monitors and speakers to identify any problem areas. They will also listen in mono for any phase problems which result in signal dropout.
Treat your room as well as you can with your budget and get the most accurate monitors you can afford. Mixing can be done in an inferior environment, but a near flat room will sure make life easier as a mixing or mastering engineer!
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